Burdens

[Dobbs]

I have been considering bumping the Amazons to a Burden of 3, and leaving Burden 2 to post ships/corvettes. I have already made the decision that all frigates, regardless of Burden, have 8 damage boxes. Post ships/corvettes would have 7 damage boxes.

I really don't see why Ares decided to make the Amazons Burden 2 with a greater firepower than the Concordes, when they are both 32 gun 12 pounder frigates. I think it's much more interesting to have them evenly matched, with the French design being slightly more maneuverable.

[Killick]

Whilst I have little knowlege on this subject what you say Dodds make sence to me.

[Bligh]

It would certainly help the Amazon to get more use in games.
Whilst not wanting to sail super frigates all the time no one wants to sail a lame duck, unless like me they have a perverse enjoyment about seeking a victory against all the odds.. At least your suggestion will give her a more even break in an encounter.
Rob.

[Dobbs]

I began converting all of my Amazon base cards to Burden 3, and thought, wait a moment, Royal navy ships of a class were typically not as fast as their French counterparts either. To that end, I have now switched the decks. My Amazons are now A's, and my Concordes are now C's.

[Diamondback]

Dobbs, this kind of work is why we invited you to the Stats Committee. However, I think I found why Ares statted the Amazons the way they did...

Ship	Length	Beam	BM tonnage	Game Stats
1777 Concorde HMS Concorde as taken	43.28	11.3	888 82/94 (sister Courageuse 932)	3x8
1773 Amazon ref design	38.4	10.67	677 62/94	2x8
1775 Enterprise ref design	36.58	10.11	593 89/94
US Peacock group USS Frolic/HMS Florida as taken	36.28	9.75	539 11/94
1805 Banterer QD postship	35.97	9.75	537 2/94
1812 Cyrus flushdecker	35.06	8.84	454 80/94
1797 Cruizer	30.48	9.3	382 41/94
1766 Swan	29.29	7.96	300 4/94	1x7

The Hermiones, the last new British 12pdr 32 design, were around 710-724 bm; the few 18pdr 32's in RN service ranged from 776 (Pallas, original design) to 922 BM (Amphion-class Proserpine). Concorde's heavier hull is more representative of a small 18pdr; in operational terms, a parallel could be drawn that French practice is as much one way from British as American is the other; American being to arm for "the next size up" and French "the next size down."

[Bligh]

This is a really enlightening conversation gents. I am finding out a lot more here than just looking at the bald stats in books which are hard to hold from one page to the next when reading about the various ships, let alone from book to book when reading about different national ships.
Thank you gents.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

For comparison, the lightest and oldest RN 12pdr 32's, the 1750s Southamptons, were about 650 BM. Also, Courageuse's higher tonnage was on about one meter more length, so at a ~10m beam that implies about 50 tons per meter.

My one criticism of Winfield, he doesn't do direct side-by-side comparisons.

[Bligh]

That is what I am finding irksome DB. Winfield is excellent in many ways but that is not one of them.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

I'm gonna build out that table a little more, though it partially mirrors one in the Committee Wardroom.

[Bligh]

The one in the wardroom is aso a very handy resource DB.
Rob.