Foam Storage trays

[The Royal Hajj]

I'd like to get you guys on the subject of foam storage trays for this game. I've roughed out the ship shapes and am trying to decide if it would be better to store the ships on their sides, or have them stand up in the foam trays?

On their sides
If stored this way, the tray has to be 1.5 inches (38.1mm) thick, the bases and cards would be stored in a separate cutout on the same tray (similar to my Wings trays). These ships have a pretty large footprint when laid on their side, so I can not get a lot on a single tray.

Standing up
If stored this way, the tray has to 3 inches (76.2mm) thick. I would have several options for storing the bases and cards.

1. They could be stored on edge in one part of the tray while the ships were in another area of the same tray. This setup would most likely allow the maximum number of ships to be stored.
2. Keep the ships on their bases, with the cards stored underneath them. We would get less minis per tray, but all of the miniature's components would be in the same spot for easy selection.
3. Have a cutout for the base and cards right next to each ship. This would allow for slightly less storage capacity as option one, but more then option 2. It also has the benifit of having the ship and it's base/cards right next to it.

What are you guys thoughts?

[Coog]

I like standing up, option 1.

[Wargamer]

On their side. Vertical standing seems to be the optimum method of allowing the mini to rattle around, breaking sails etc. Also, the 1.5 inch height compared to 3" height would tend to negate the number of mini's per when you consider the number per volume of the bag the layers of storage are in.

[The Royal Hajj]

On their side. Vertical standing seems to be the optimum method of allowing the mini to rattle around, breaking sails etc. Also, the 1.5 inch height compared to 3" height would tend to negate the number of mini's per when you consider the number per volume of the bag the layers of storage are in.

I think they would actually rattle around more on their sides... since the sails stick out over the sides of the hulls, they do not lay flat as it is. If I do them vertically, the peg on the bottom would be inserted into the tray's foam bottom (but not sticking all the way through) and the cutout for the ship would be fitted around the sails. As to the 1.5 to 3 inch concern, I can fit roughly two ships standing up in the same footprint as one ship laying on it's side. This would appear to give you the same number of ships standing up in one 3 inch tray as you would get with them laying down in two 1.5 inch trays. The differeance is, when you use two trays, you are actually adding another .25 inch in height for the tray bottom. So, two 1.5 inch trays become 3.25 inches tall. It does not sound like much, but at four trays, you lose a full inch of vertical space in your bag.

Another thing to think about, two 1.5 trays are going to cost more then a single 3 tray... about $7-$8 more.

[7eat51]

I am for standing up, options 1 or 3, based on the descriptions, and not having seen the ships or answers to below.

What are the length and width dimensions?

Will weight be a factor in terms of durability?

How do folks currently transport their minis?

[The Royal Hajj]

Final dimensions for the trays have not been decided yet. The ships are actually lighter then the Wings planes, so weight is not an issue at all.

[7eat51]

So it is the bases that are heavy? I am thinking about the discussions relating to shipping costs.

[Blackrose]

Sounds like standing up might be better.
Karl

[The Royal Hajj]

One of the 74s weighs .25 oz, the base comes in at .25 oz as well. The maneuver decks are going to be around 1 oz each I'm guessing. I think the weight comes from all of the card stock and rule books in the starter set. Just one of the damage types has 90 chits!

[7eat51]

One of the 74s weighs .25 oz, the base comes in at .25 oz as well. The maneuver decks are going to be around 1 oz each I'm guessing. I think the weight comes from all of the card stock and rule books in the starter set. Just one of the damage types has 90 chits!

That explains a lot. I was wondering why the ships were so heavy. Knowing they are similar to WoG planes changes my thinking on a few things related to taking the game on the road. This will be much easier than I had thought previously.

[Diamondback]

I'm all about "pack as much crap as safely possible into bare-minimum space", so I vot "Standing Option 1"--if the walls between compartments are thick enough, it might be possible to stick labels on top of 'em to keep track of what's where.

Next question: do reflags get slots by sculpt or by country? (For example, does HMS Impetueux go with the other Temeraires, or the other Royal Navy SOL's?)

[Gunner]

Since a lot of people (I think) will be rigging their models, maybe standing up would be a better choice.

[The Royal Hajj]

Next question: do reflags get slots by sculpt or by country? (For example, does HMS Impetueux go with the other Temeraires, or the other Royal Navy SOL's?)

I've not decided on the exact layouts yet... so input on that would be welcome.

Since a lot of people (I think) will be rigging their models, maybe standing up would be a better choice.

I had thought about that as well. If I do them laying down, and someone rigs their ships, they would most likely not fit in the cutouts any longer.

[Gunner]

[QUOTE=The Royal Hajj;8516]I've not decided on the exact layouts yet... so input on that would be welcome.


Trays by nationality work best for me. Easier to keep track of ships. But whatever works best to get the most ships per tray is also important.

[Diamondback]

Boss, idea: could you maybe create digital mockups of all the options, let us see what they might look like? Or is it likely that a full set of 16 will fit in one tray?

Ideally, I'd break it down by set, nation and rating myself--maybe a tray for "Series 1 Main", one for the Exclusives, Victory/Constitution and KS accessories and one for the Starter and its supplies?

Or... start with "By Set", then later break it down into ratings or timeframe... for example, 1660 Sovereign of the Seas and Victory's progeny the Impregnables don't belong in the same tray IMO despite both being "First Rates", simply from the sheer technology difference between the Alpha and Omega of their classification. (Never mind that rating only counts NUMBER of guns, and says NOTHING about weight of shells thrown per broadside...)

[Gunner]

Good point. Since the KS ships won't be available after the kickstarter is over, they should have their own trays. The Victory and the Constitution will be available to everyone later.

[Devsdoc]

Hi All,
I use 2 Lt plastic boxs with a non-slip rubber mat. I get 12-14 fully rigged 1-1200 models standing up in each box I cover the ships with bubble-wrap before closeing the lid. The more models in the box the better. If the box is not full I put bubble-wrap down the sides. I can get two ships bow to bow in line eg, two 3th rates, 1st/2nd rate with a frigate and the smaller ships across between two frigates. I use Langton bases (Thinner than S.O.G) and have 4 sizes of bases, 3 deckers 40mmx85mm, 3rd rate 40mmx75mm, frigate 40mmx65mm and unrated 20mmx50mm. Not as good as a made tray, but it works.
Be safe
Rory

[Diamondback]

Good point. Since the KS ships won't be available after the kickstarter is over, they should have their own trays. The Victory and the Constitution will be available to everyone later.

Also why I suggest a Starter tray: same sitch, opposite direction--the Starter will be available long after Series 1 goes out of print, unless they do a new starter with new sculpts or new schemes every few sets.

[Berthier]

I'd support vertical, providing it was easy to remove the model from the foam without damaging masts and rigging etc. Another way to store ships is to put thin metal sheets on the base and use magnetic strips on a storage container of your choice (or vica-versa, magnetic material under ship base and f;lat sheet in container). This is how I transport 15mm painted figures.

[David Manley]

I've been storing AoS minis for decades. I've tried both orientations and standing is by far the better solution both in terms of handling and in terms of minimising risk of damage to the model. My current preferred method is to use magnetic tape on the model base and similar in transport boxes (most of my models spend most of their time in steel drawers too), but foam would work OK too.

[Andy Blozinski]

[*]Have a cutout for the base and cards right next to each ship. This would allow for slightly less storage capacity as option one, but more then option 2. It also has the benifit of having the ship and it's base/cards right next to it.[/LIST]


What are you guys thoughts?

I wouldn't even consider putting the bases and cards in a foam tray. They don't need that protection. Foam protection consumes lots of space. Just keep a small separate case in which you can easily stack the bases and cards. It's not like you're going to carry absolutely everything for a game in one single package with a handle. You're going to have multiple things to carry anyways.

[7eat51]

I wouldn't even consider putting the bases and cards in a foam tray. They don't need that protection. Foam protection consumes lots of space. Just keep a small separate case in which you can easily stack the bases and cards. It's not like you're going to carry absolutely everything for a game in one single package with a handle. You're going to have multiple things to carry anyways.

If I could store more ships in one tray due to the lack of cards and bases, I would not mind, in the least, having a separate container full of bases and card decks. I will have such a container anyway for the logs, chits, rulers, etc. I would simply get a bigger one to include bases and ship related cards.

[Wargamer]

I wouldn't even consider putting the bases and cards in a foam tray. They don't need that protection. Foam protection consumes lots of space. Just keep a small separate case in which you can easily stack the bases and cards. It's not like you're going to carry absolutely everything for a game in one single package with a handle. You're going to have multiple things to carry anyways.

I would prefer the system to be similar to the foam hangers for WoG. It makes it quick and easy to select model and have the material needed to run it together instead of hunting elsewhere. Items that are needed for the game but are not model specific - damage cards/chits - markers of various types that are pretty generic - those are the items I would store separate from the models, usually in an outside pouch of the carry bag that holds the foam hangers.

[Devsdoc]

Keith,
Do the bases and ships come apart?
Be safe
Rory.

[BonhommeRichard]

i think that the standing in the foam trays option would also help keep the ships more "ship shape"

[The Royal Hajj]

I wouldn't even consider putting the bases and cards in a foam tray. They don't need that protection. Foam protection consumes lots of space. Just keep a small separate case in which you can easily stack the bases and cards. It's not like you're going to carry absolutely everything for a game in one single package with a handle. You're going to have multiple things to carry anyways.

I carry 60+ planes to conventions in a single bag with all of the supporting components all the time. I would do the same with Sails. My whole design goal is to make it where you only have to carry one bag.

I would prefer the system to be similar to the foam hangers for WoG. It makes it quick and easy to select model and have the material needed to run it together instead of hunting elsewhere. Items that are needed for the game but are not model specific - damage cards/chits - markers of various types that are pretty generic - those are the items I would store separate from the models, usually in an outside pouch of the carry bag that holds the foam hangers.

That is how I'm leaning at the moment... with possibly a Crew tray (like my Ground Crew one for WGF)

Keith,
Do the bases and ships come apart?
Be safe
Rory.

Yes they do.

[Beowulf03809]

With the peg on the bottom of the ship are you thinking of having a small hole in the foam bottoms to accomodate a vertical orientation? It would help (a little) with securing the ship as well.

[Andy Blozinski]

With the peg on the bottom of the ship are you thinking of having a small hole in the foam bottoms to accomodate a vertical orientation? It would help (a little) with securing the ship as well.

Now that I think about it.......
If they have a mounting peg in the bottom of the ship, you shouldn't need foam at all. You just need mounting blocks on a flat plate.

[Wargamer]

Now that I think about it.......
If they have a mounting peg in the bottom of the ship, you shouldn't need foam at all. You just need mounting blocks on a flat plate.

ayup, sounds good. rattle, crash, broke, oh well. back to the drawing board.

[Andy Blozinski]

ayup, sounds good. rattle, crash, broke, oh well. back to the drawing board.

I guess I don't understand what you mean. Please elaborate.

[The Royal Hajj]

With the peg on the bottom of the ship are you thinking of having a small hole in the foam bottoms to accomodate a vertical orientation? It would help (a little) with securing the ship as well.

Already in the design

I guess I don't understand what you mean. Please elaborate.

I think he means he would not trust the peg to be the only thing securing and protecting the ships... and neither would I.

[Andy Blozinski]

Neither of us have seen the pegs, so we can't pass judgement. Do they not secure the ship to the base? Do they have a positive lock, or are they just a loose fit? If they lack a positive lock, then it might be possible to modify them so they do. Buy a threading die from a hardware store and put a fixing nut on the bottom. All it takes is a little imagination.

[PirateBlake]

Having rigged some 1/1200 ships, storing/transporting them standing is the only option for me. Ships with rigging on their sides, at least for me, have really messed up the rigging and I dont like rigging the ship again

So I would vote for the Standing option.

[The Royal Hajj]

Neither of us have seen the pegs, so we can't pass judgement. Do they not secure the ship to the base? Do they have a positive lock, or are they just a loose fit? If they lack a positive lock, then it might be possible to modify them so they do. Buy a threading die from a hardware store and put a fixing nut on the bottom. All it takes is a little imagination.

I have some of the ships and one of the base. They are pretty much the same as the pegs used in Wings. They do have a better grip as they are larger pegs, but I still would not trust to that alone to hold the ships in place.

You could use a tap and die on the pegs, but they are tapered, so you would most likely need to replace the peg with a metal one you have added threading to. But then, you would have to spin the entire ship around to take it off the storage tray... which would waste a lot of room.

I think for someone willing to modify ship/base, the best method would be to tap them both to fit a rare earth magnet in them. Then you could use the magnet ont eh bottom of the ship to attach to metal in the storage tray. Even with this route, I'd want them surrounded by foam to protect them from things falling on them.

[Sea Gull]

I have some of the ships and one of the base. They are pretty much the same as the pegs used in Wings. They do have a better grip as they are larger pegs, but I still would not trust to that alone to hold the ships in place.

I think for someone willing to modify ship/base, the best method would be to tap them both to fit a rare earth magnet in them. Then you could use the magnet ont eh bottom of the ship to attach to metal in the storage tray. Even with this route, I'd want them surrounded by foam to protect them from things falling on them.

Damm, I better stop feeding my kids those rare earth magnets.

[DeRuyter]

I've been storing AoS minis for decades. I've tried both orientations and standing is by far the better solution both in terms of handling and in terms of minimising risk of damage to the model. My current preferred method is to use magnetic tape on the model base and similar in transport boxes (most of my models spend most of their time in steel drawers too), but foam would work OK too.

Ditto - I would prefer standing. My Langton's are based on Litko wood with magnets. As someone else posted, ships with rigging are more easily damged lying on their sides.

I use KR cases for my WoG aircraft and they have options for either putting the card and base next to the model, or having a separate tray. As for the logs, tokens, and markers they have a separate thin tray to hold these at the bottom of the case. The best solution would minimize your bags or cases of course!

[[Blue Jacket] R.I.P.]

While I like the idea of more trays in less space = more ships. Standing them up does seems to be the better idea. I also like the idea of the bases and cards being kept in the same tray, the fewer bags to carry, the better.

[pward]

I am for the standing up option as well, I hope someone makes a decent case with the logo on it, otherwise I will try and make my own.

[The Royal Hajj]

, I hope someone makes a decent case with the logo on it, otherwise I will try and make my own.

It's being discussed.

[7eat51]

It's being discussed.

What's the possibility of having logos printed on sheets that we can peel off and put on cases, etc.? Do you think there would be a market?

[daledavis67]

How tall are the ships compared to a maneuver deck placed on end? If you could insert the cards into a slot in a foam tray standing on end you could save room and, maybe get an additional ship or two with their decks. You could put the finger cut-outs on the deck slots to make them easy to pull out. Sorry if this has been proposed already.

[CHolgren]

I hope I'm not over stepping, but I thought about this and came up with this idea for the foam storage.



please forgive the rough sketch, I actually started using a ruler, but for the sake of speed went to free hand. First picture is looking at the back of the models and open portion of the foam. Followed by a side view of the case foam and third is fro the top portion of the foam case. possible foam configurations take up the last small drawings. If the slots in the foam that accomodate the bases are snug enough to keep the mini from sliding around the bow spirit should be safe and the design should accomodate plenty of minis. The foam would just be thick, front to back of the ship models. Not sure how feasible this would be, I've never used foam cases for anything. Thanks for hearing me out.

[7eat51]

Hey Cory, I apologize, but I am not quite following your descriptions and associated drawings. Any clarification would be appreciated.

[The Royal Hajj]

So your idea is to have the trays be vertical, allowing the ships to slide in? The only drawbacks I can think of now is that some of the ships over hang the bases (bow spirits especially), you would have to have a side loading bag, and since the trays would be standing up vertically, they might not be as stable when out of the bag (but the foam thickness might take care of that). The first advantage,would be that any ship could fit into any slot (so long as the base to ship peg connection was tight enough (or magnetized)) allowing for the most customized layout per tray. Secondly, the ships could be stored with the bases already attached, cutting down on setup time (no need to find the right ship card for that ship and insert it into the base). You could effectively "pre-load" your ships for the upcoming game.

I'll have to work through this configuration some more, but you have me thinking....

[The Royal Hajj]

Hey Cory, I apologize, but I am not quite following your descriptions and associated drawings. Any clarification would be appreciated.

Normally we view the above tray as looking at it from the top down. But if you think about it as looking at the tray from the side or in profile, I think you will see what he is talking about. The ships would slide into "pigeon holes" from the side of the tray. that make sense?

[7eat51]

If I understand this correctly, the third row picture in which we see the ships upright with the bases below illustrate a vertical tray that is several inches thick in which we slide our ships and decks into, somewhat like parking a car into a garage; the third row picture would be the view of a "4-car" garage from the driveway. Am I anywhere on target?

[The Royal Hajj]

You've got it. However, I think the decks would need to be stored in a separate pigeon hole to ensure the foam to base fit is snug enough. Since each deck will have different amounts of cards in it, stacking them in with the bases would cause to much play.

[Gunner]

Having a separate tray for cards and one for equipment wouldn't hurt. Or a combination of both.

[CHolgren]

Sorry, I'm on flood watch, Northern Illinois just got 1-2inches of water and my backyard was/is under water and window wells are filling up. You have my idea in hand pretty well. Sorry, I wasn't able to answer sooner.

[The Royal Hajj]

No worries Cory, take care and make sure you can only float your new ships outside your house.