What Ratings do we need most?

[Diamondback]

Trying to do a little informal, unofficial Market Research for Ares here... like my intent with One Ship. Guys, they can't read our minds--unless we tell them what we want, they have to go by guesses! PLEASE, help me help them help you?

First, I need a check on how I've broken down the ratings for categories. This seem OK?
-Heavy First (110+)
-Light First (100-108)
-Heavy Second (90-98)
-Light Second (84-88; a rarity)
-Heavy Third (80; mainly a French/Spanish thing)
-Medium Third (68-74)
-Light Third (62-66)
-Heavy Fourth (56-60; two-deckers or frigates)
-Light Fourth (50-54; two-deckers or frigates)
-Heavy Fifth (40-44; mostly frigates but some small two-deckers)
-Medium Fifth (36-38; frigates)
-Light Fifth (30-34; frigates)
-Heavy Sixth (26-28; corvettes/post-ships)
-Light Sixth (22-24; corvettes/post-ships)
-Heavy Unrated (14-20; ship-sloops and larger brig-sloops)
-Medium Unrated (10-12; gun-brigs and smaller brig-sloops)
-Light Unrated (<10; cutters, schooners etc.)

Then, the main thrust of the question... yes, we all know everybody wants EIM's xebecs, galleys, pirates and everything else under the sun--but looking strictly at WARSHIP sculpts, which ratings do we most want to see? I'll re-summarize what we already have or Ares can easily do with repaints of existing sculpts in a table below; the main question here is "where to start breaking new ground?"

Rating	British	French	American	Spanish	Russian	Dutch
Heavy First (110+)	SGN108 as Ville de Paris/Hibernia	SGN106 Ocean	N/A	SGN112 Meregildos
Light First (100-108)	SGN108 as most First Rates SGN201 Victory		N/A		SGN108 as Ches'ma
Heavy Second	?SGN108 as 1810 Boyne-cl.?	N/A	N/A	N/A
Light Second (84-88)		N/A	N/A	N/A
Heavy Third (80)			N/A
Medium Third (68-74)	SGN104 Slade Common 74	SGN102 1782 Temeraire	?Independence as SP?	SGN111 Gautier 74s	SGN104 as Triokh Sviatitelei
Light Third (62-66)	SGN104 as St. Albans/Worcester	SGN109 Artesien 64	N/A
Heavy Fourth (56-60)			(effective) SGN201 Constitution
Light Fourth (50-54)	SGN110 Portland 50		N/A
Heavy Fifth (40-44)
Medium Fifth (36-38)	SGN105 as Leda	SGN105 Hebe
Light Fifth (30-34)	SGN103 1773 Amazon	SGN101 1777-round 32's
Heavy Sixth (26-28)	SGN103 as Enterprise 28
Light Sixth (22-24)
Heavy Unrated (16-20)
Medium Unrated (10-14)	SGN107 Swan ship-sloop
Light Unrated (<10)

This isn't necessarily about what you personally want to play so much as "What are the biggest, most critical holes in the game's warship classes that need plugging?" and I'm gonna ask you to pick your one most critical "Action Item" warship type in this poll.

[csadn]

Well, the obvious holes-to-plug are "no Spanish ships" and "no Dutch ships" (I don't consider the Russians a Big Deal unless one also does their traditional foes, the Swedes and the Turks; and that requires a whole other round of sculpts). Following close behind that is "lack of smaller units of all sides" -- _Swan_ has nothing it can fight with.

That said: Let's face it -- Spanish ships are there mainly to provide pop-up targets for the British, so unless one does a lot of "alternate history" where the Spanish are at least marginally-competent, there's not a lot of point to them. The Dutch ceased to be a meaningful power sometime in the mid-1700s, so their ships are also irrelevant unless one wishes to do "earlier wars" or alt-hist.

So, on that basis, the hole which must be filled first is "more Unrateds", as that covers the small-unit actions throughout the FrenchRev/Napoleonic period.

Oh, and you have two "Heavy Unrated" up there.

[Diamondback]

Right--I'm not even talking about nationalities, just sizes of ship here. Can't tell you much about expansion nations, but I CAN tell you they have been the subject of discussion and research (and MUCH argument)...

The idea is, narrow a Wave slot down to a rating, then to a nation, then to a sculpting class, and then finally to names on that sculpt. Think of it as a little like how you distill moonshine... :)

[Diamondback]

Uh, guys, I screwed up the poll... Heavy Unrated's in twice, Medium not at all. :(

[Nightmoss]

Uh, guys, I screwed up the poll... Heavy Unrated's in twice, Medium not at all. :(

That might change some voting?

[Diamondback]

So I need an Admin to edit the poll, since I can't figure out how to remove/replace. :(

[csadn]

So I need an Admin to edit the poll, since I can't figure out how to remove/replace. :(

Or reboot altogether.

Right--I'm not even talking about nationalities, just sizes of ship here. Can't tell you much about expansion nations, but I CAN tell you they have been the subject of discussion and research (and MUCH argument)...

That may be; however, in order to figure out which size to vote for, one must look at the complete list, which includes nationality -- and since there's a complete lack of Eastern nations so far, well, as I said above....

The idea is, narrow a Wave slot down to a rating, then to a nation, then to a sculpting class, and then finally to names on that sculpt. Think of it as a little like how you distill moonshine... :)

[Schultz from _To Be Or Not To Be_] I don't know anything about that! [/Schultz]

[7eat51]

Poll has been corrected; however, one vote was previously made for Heavy Unrated. Given the double Heavy Unrated options, it is now registered as Medium Unrated. Depending upon how many vote, this could be of interest. If, however, the majority vote for other types of ships, this potential error will be irrelevant.

[csadn]

Poll has been corrected; however, one vote was previously made for Heavy Unrated. Given the double Heavy Unrated options, it is now registered as Medium Unrated. Depending upon how many vote, this could be of interest. If, however, the majority vote for other types of ships, this potential error will be irrelevant.

Yup -- that was why I put it there; I figured it was *supposed* to be "Medium Unrated".

[David Manley]

IMHO (and not wanting to get into the nationality debate as I think the Batavians, Swedes and Russians as well as the Spanish are worth playing for various reasons) the current gap is in the 44 gun region. As I've said before the game works best for frigate actions, and unrated ships under the rules are (again IMHO) unfortunately constrained in the scope of the statting range so the big US and British frigates stick out to me as a hole that needs filling.

Along with Spaniards of course :)

[Diamondback]

Just a trivial note, I've pinned down a few sculpts that it'd take an absolute moron not to slot in...

French/British shared Tonnant/Bucentaure 80 (most of the RN's 80s were captured T/B's)
US Humphreys 44 mainline release
US Humphreys and Fox 38's (can these tolerably share a sculpt? If not, both become problematic)
British Cruizer brig-sloop
British Cherokee gun-brig
Spanish Ildefonso or Montanes 74 (they seem pretty close)
British 74s derived from 1757 Courageux (any of Carnatic, Blake, Armada classes--late 74, these ships are visually distinguishable from Slade's old 1744 Invincible derivatives we already have)

And then, not sculpts but categories to correct existing slot imbalance:
British medium frigate (I've suggested SGN105 be flipped for most of future runs to be British Leda with the Hebes as the "token French flag")--Lively class is a must for War of 1812
French unrated ship-sloop or similar

[Coog]

If you are going to have Cruziers, you need to have the American ship-sloops...either Wasp/Hornet or the later large ship-sloops of 1814.

[Diamondback]

True--I'd say the Wasp/Frolic/Peacock trio are another "key sculpt" as one of the most-produced American designs. (It's SAD when classes of THREE are a country's idea of "mass production"... hard to believe those ragtag flotillas of the Revolutionary and 1812 eras evolved into the churn-out-tin-cans-by-the-gross fleet that carried the day in WWII and the Cold War.)

Cruizer and Cherokee mainly made the list by sheer populations. :)

[Coog]

True--I'd say the Wasp/Frolic/Peacock trio are another "key sculpt" as one of the most-produced American designs. (It's SAD when classes of THREE are a country's idea of "mass production"... hard to believe those ragtag flotillas of the Revolutionary and 1812 eras evolved into the churn-out-tin-cans-by-the-gross fleet that carried the day in WWII and the Cold War.)

Cruizer and Cherokee mainly made the list by sheer populations. :)

There were also the sloops Erie, Ontario, and Argus. They were considered a different class but appeared identical to Wasp, Peacock, and Frolic above the waterline. Argus was burnt in Washington to prevent capture. Erie and Ontario did not see action in the War of 1812 due to blockades but did participate in the Second Barbary War of 1815.

[7eat51]

Yup -- that was why I put it there; I figured it was *supposed* to be "Medium Unrated".

Good to know, Chris. Thanks.

Given what we have from Ares already, I am inclined toward the heavy fifth rates.

[John Paul]

I went with the 80 gun types only because Constitution (44 guns) and Victory (110+) are already on the horizon, so to speak.

Now my second choice would be for at least one or two 50 gunners even though most of those were gone , or converted by the time of the later part of the 1700s. They would be a nice in between type so to speak for small actions to be sure!!

[Diamondback]

Paul, actually Victory is only a 100, and I didn't include any of the Special Pack releases. :) The Victory sculpt in watered-down form is the basis of SGN108 (not how I would have tackled British three-deckers, but c'est la vie), so I'm hoping we'll see a later SGN1xx Humphreys 44 similarly--and would argue that it would be a huge mistake if they DIDN'T; I've actually proposed a "release candidate" group that only needs stats, paint and sculpt for Ares to run with.

Bobby, that's a big help--now we have to hope they'll be enough to get around the "at least one package of every sculpt must be British flag" rule.

[csadn]

True--I'd say the Wasp/Frolic/Peacock trio are another "key sculpt" as one of the most-produced American designs. (It's SAD when classes of THREE are a country's idea of "mass production"... hard to believe those ragtag flotillas of the Revolutionary and 1812 eras evolved into the churn-out-tin-cans-by-the-gross fleet that carried the day in WWII and the Cold War.)

To paraphrase Tennyson: The US was not then that strength which in later days would move earth and heaven. Give 'em a break. :)

Also: What about the Great Lakes small-units? I want to replay The Glorious September 11ths (1813 and 1814).

[Comte de Brueys]

Still a French Heavy Third (80) for me.

[Gunner]

Add me for a heavy 3rd rate 80 gun. (Tonnant class)

[Diamondback]

Also, if anybody who's read this HASN'T chimed in with their picks on "You Get ONE Ship", please do so--that's another way to ID needed sculpts and ships, and hopefully by coming at things from one direction with this thread and from the other with that one, we can get it all to meet up in the middle and give them better guidance about what's likely to sell well. :)

[Nightmoss]

I'm not sure my vote went through although I am seeing the poll results, which usually means one did so? Either way I'm rather torn between a Heavy 3rd and a Heavy 5th at this point. I suppose the best rating should go to whichever one best fills a gap.

[Diamondback]

Jim, I think that means your vote's been counted.

[Nightmoss]

Jim, I think that means your vote's been counted.

Yup, but I voted before Chris spotted the double entry. No worries.

[Gunner]

I can't believe that with all the members this site has, only 20 care to voice an opinion on what they would like next.

[Diamondback]

Sadly, Ed, I can... most gamers, actually most people in general, are grognards--they'd rather complain and wait for things to be handed to 'em than roll up sleeves, get involved and be active in trying to help MAKE things happen.

[7eat51]

I'm not sure my vote went through

As a former employee of Chicago's Board of Election Commissioners, I advise voting often, and if need be, contact an administrator handing him a brown envelope to ensure your desired choice ends on top.

I can't believe that with all the members this site has, only 20 care to voice an opinion on what they would like next.

We have a lot of members, most of whom have not been active for a while. I hope this is just summer, but I imagine some of it might be due to the lack of news about anything coming our way soon.

[Gunner]

but I imagine some of it might be due to the lack of news about anything coming our way soon.

I'm sure you're right.

[Diamondback]

ERIC! For shame, encouraging such practices...

In all seriousness, if only Da Coach had seen fit to run for Senate... Ditka for President! LOL :D

[Coog]

George (CelticCat) has all of the X-Wing stuff, much in multiples. I have the key to his house.

As a former employee of Chicago's Board of Election Commissioners, I advise voting often, and if need be, contact an administrator handing him a brown envelope to ensure your desired choice ends on top.

ERIC! For shame, encouraging such practices...

Careful DB, you might get a dead fish in the mail!

[Gunner]

ERIC! For shame, encouraging such practices...

In all seriousness, if only Da Coach had seen fit to run for Senate... Ditka for President! LOL :D

I'll second that. But DA guy is too open & honest to be president.

[Coog]

[Gunner]

I don't like stickers on my car but, I might make an exception for this one.

[7eat51]

They were talking about Ditka on the radio this morning, and how it would have been great had he run for the Senate years ago. They hypothesized how things could be different today had he taken the seat instead of Obama. The joys of Illinois politics.

Fish in the mail …. On our wedding day, Sue and I presented a whole roasted pig to her family - one of the many Chinese traditions that day. Her parents then cut off the head and tail to send to my family - again part of the tradition. I laughed to myself because to send an animal's head to an Italian has a slightly different meaning.

[csadn]

Sadly, Ed, I can... most gamers, actually most people in general, are grognards--they'd rather complain and wait for things to be handed to 'em than roll up sleeves, get involved and be active in trying to help MAKE things happen.

Alternate explanation: Most of us who have tried to get gaming co's to listen to us have been trained "your opinion Does Not Matter; sit down, shut up, and buy what we offer you".

(Let's just say: I'm seeing an example of this right now on Another Well-Known Gaming Company's Forum.... :P )

Mike Ditka as PotUS: I have seen Mike Ditka Angry -- not Football-Field Angry; "NFL has been covering up post-concussion syndrome for decades, and letting players die rather than helping them" Angry. I rather get the impression if he had acquired That Seat, there would be not a few locations in the Middle East covered in a thick layer of radioactive glass....

"And that's all I have to say about that."

[Diamondback]

Chris, one of the reasons I got the in that I did was implied to be as a conduit for feedback and suggestions.

As for Ditka: And you SURVIVED? I thought he was bad enough on an episode of The Great Food Truck Race where one truck did a total bungle of trying to sell his sausages...

[csadn]

Chris, one of the reasons I got the in that I did was implied to be as a conduit for feedback and suggestions.

[nod] Unfortunately, I have been doing this long enough... well, to quote Number Six: "Many times bitten -- forever shy."

As for Ditka: And you SURVIVED? I thought he was bad enough on an episode of The Great Food Truck Race where one truck did a total bungle of trying to sell his sausages...

Fortunately I was watching this on TV -- but it was readily apparent the interviewer and crew were making ready to de-ass the area with the quickness, Ditka was *that* obviously angry.... (When you've done security at cons as many times as I have, you learn the signs right quick, so you can be there when someone finally snaps his tether and tries to kill a coolie.)

[Wartrain]

Went with 26 - 28 gun 6th rate. hopefully French Unite class HMS Surprise

[Coog]

In all seriousness, if only Da Coach had seen fit to run for Senate... Ditka for President! LOL :D

[Gunner]

That's the only thing I hold against DA Coach. (Not running in 04) But I don't think his heart could have taken it.

[Diamondback]

One other note, re "Light Seconds": I only know of ONE in the RN before the end of the Napoleonic era and the subsequent realignment of the rating system and upgunning of most surviving 80's - the 1757 razeeing of 1719 HMS Royal William into a flush-decked three-decker, which ultimately evolved into the Barfleur 90/98's. Maybe the French or Spanish or others had some, though...

[Bligh]

I voted light third in the end. It will fill a gap for my Squadron.
I did however like the idea of the Razee Frigates.
Rob.

[7eat51]

Having played more since this poll was conducted, I would like to see more ships from fifths on down. I have enough going up the chain, but without a wider collection of ratings and unrated, I fear the types of scenario options will reach a limit before too long.

[Dr.Maturin]

I just voted for a Heavy Fifth. Something to pitch against these highly efficient American Frigates which gave us so many problems in 1812.

[scourge]

We need 50, 60, and 64 gun ships.

I would like to see 'The horrible old Leopard' done as a special boxed set.

[Bligh]

Of course we have no Seconds, neither heavy nor light, and yet there were 25 of them in British service during the time we cover. Notable names included the Barfleur, and Temeraire.
Rob.

[Gunner]

We need 50, 60, and 64 gun ships.

I would like to see 'The horrible old Leopard' done as a special boxed set.

The 50 and 64 are in the works.
Welcome to the Anchorage Michael.

[Union Jack]

I would rather see ships produced as a class with 2 of the variants named on the in box card. If Ares produced a blister pack of cards with the other ships in that class I'd buy those too. Obviously class cards may have to he combined in a pack to make this viable. I was thinking along the lines of the old Nexus aircraft blister decks

[Bligh]

That would be a cracking idea Neil. Also unlike the Aircraft packs, if they did not include maneuver decks it would still encourage punters to buy the extra ships in the class too. A win win all round.
Rob.

[Naharaht]

I have voted for Heavy Fifth-rate because that would include H.M.S. Indefatigable.