Help for alternative armament for British 74 & question on British 80 gun SOL

[DeRuyter]

I have a reference that the HMS Hero was armed with carronades on the FC&QD at Trafalgar. Wiki only gives the standard 9 pounders. Can anyone (DB?) help me out?

I realize that by asking this question I am admitting I don't have Adkin's "Trafalgar Companion" It is on my Amazon wish list I swear!

Also anyone have a suggestion for the gunnery factors for a British 80 gun design, i.e.; HMS Caesar? I was thinking of adding +1 chit for the first 2 boxes. She had 24 pounders on the upper gun deck instead of 18s. I guess the same could be asked about a 74 armed with 24lbers on the upper deck.

Thanks

Eric

[fredmiracle]

Also anyone have a suggestion for the gunnery factors for a British 80 gun design, i.e.; HMS Caesar? I was thinking of adding +1 chit for the first 2 boxes. She had 24 pounders on the upper gun deck instead of 18s. I guess the same could be asked about a 74 armed with 24lbers on the upper deck.

There is very little wiggle room between the 74s and the 100-gun first rates as far as gunnery is concerned. I'm not able to discern much rhyme or reason to how Ares has done these kinds of adjustments. But if I was going to adjust for the 80 gun ships at all, I would add a factor here and there in the middle, so the drop-off in fighting capacity isn't quite as steep, rather than putting them all at the top. Adding a total of +6 factors seems pretty reasonable--the "juiced" ships in Wave 1 (e.g. Redoubtable and HMS Impetueux) show similar advantages

[Diamondback]

Good questions, amigo...

Per ThreeDecks (their source being BWAS 1793-1817), Hero's armament as of Aug 1803:
Lower Gun Deck 28x British 32-Pounder
Upper Gun Deck 28x British 18-Pounder
Quarterdeck 2x British 18-Pounder plus 12x British 32-Pound Carronade
Forecastle 2x British 18-Pounder plus 12x British 32-Pound Carronade
Roundhouse 6x British 18-Pound Carronade

Broadside weight 448 lwr + 252 upr + 36 QD/FC guns (mainly there as bow/stern chasers, really) = 736# gun broadside plus 384#crde broadside for a total of 1120# throw at short range.

I myself have reservations about this number, as trying to pack TWELVE carronades onto the forecastle seems rather cramped and unlikely--1802 Albion only carried two 32's, admittedly plus an extra pair of 18# guns up there. Here's a decent start on the class:
http://threedecks.org/index.php?disp...w_class&id=335
Maybe looking at her sisters will help come up with a more plausible number... Hope this helps, but this shows you some of the bane of the historian's existence, incomplete, inaccurate or just plain sloppy records.

[csadn]

I myself have reservations about this number, as trying to pack TWELVE carronades onto the forecastle seems rather cramped and unlikely--

Cramped, and *HEAVY* -- all that weight up-high will do bad things to the handling of even a 1st- or 2nd-rate.

[DeRuyter]

Cramped, and *HEAVY* -- all that weight up-high will do bad things to the handling of even a 1st- or 2nd-rate.

Actually weight was one of the advantages of the carronades. Much less weight and space (sliding trucks) than a comparable long gun. Having said that I'd agree that you'd see them mostly on the QD and far less on the FC. (cf. US heavy frigates).

[DeRuyter]

Good questions, amigo...

Per ThreeDecks (their source being BWAS 1793-1817), Hero's armament as of Aug 1803:
Lower Gun Deck 28x British 32-Pounder
Upper Gun Deck 28x British 18-Pounder
Quarterdeck 2x British 18-Pounder plus 12x British 32-Pound Carronade
Forecastle 2x British 18-Pounder plus 12x British 32-Pound Carronade
Roundhouse 6x British 18-Pound Carronade

Broadside weight 448 lwr + 252 upr + 36 QD/FC guns (mainly there as bow/stern chasers, really) = 736# gun broadside plus 384#crde broadside for a total of 1120# throw at short range.

I myself have reservations about this number, as trying to pack TWELVE carronades onto the forecastle seems rather cramped and unlikely--1802 Albion only carried two 32's, admittedly plus an extra pair of 18# guns up there. Here's a decent start on the class:
http://threedecks.org/index.php?disp...w_class&id=335
Maybe looking at her sisters will help come up with a more plausible number... Hope this helps, but this shows you some of the bane of the historian's existence, incomplete, inaccurate or just plain sloppy records.

Thanks DB!

[David Manley]

I myself have reservations about this number, as trying to pack TWELVE carronades onto the forecastle seems rather cramped and unlikely

Its an error on the website. BWAS has 12 carronades on the QD, 2 (not 12) on the FC

[DeRuyter]

Its an error on the website. BWAS has 12 carronades on the QD, 2 (not 12) on the FC

That's what I figured as the other 74s armed this way had 2 on the FC. Thanks!

[Diamondback]

Thanks, David--knew something didn't seem quite right there, but was unsure of the correct score.

Unfortunately, ThreeDecks seems to be as bad as Truth or Fiction about correcting errors sometimes... the latter, I sent them definitive proof that one of their articles ("Pre-WWII Russian Bomber Bigger than B-52") was flat-ass WRONG (yes, the K-7 was huge and impressive for its time, but the BUFF is still 15' wider AND 60' longer) and they never even acknowledged let alone corrected.

[David Manley]

I've been caught out on that site before, so I tend to use it as I do Wikipedia - as a starting point, but like ULTRA I seek another source :)

[Diamondback]

Our worry is going to be that Ares sees it as the Holy Bible. I usually start with their data as a "pencil-in" on my spreadsheet for rough comparisons, then replace if I find a more reliable conflicting source.