Summary of rules thus far is now listed in second post. I will continue to edit this post as we proceed.
Summary of rules thus far is now listed in second post. I will continue to edit this post as we proceed.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
I am working on a scheme to determine captain injuries, deaths, and captures, AAR guidelines, and scenario writing guidelines.
We need to solidify the maneuver and basic combat rules. In the future, we'll develop a more advanced set of rules to include boarding, etc., play testing it in the October-December campaign.
We need to solidify a list of captain/crew skills, expanding on the captain/crew deck options.
We need to solidify a character advancement/promotion scheme.
Any suggestions to the solo rules, please make them on the solo rule thread. Any suggestions regarding the upcoming July-September campaign, please make them on the campaign thread.
Solo Rule thread: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...lopment-thread
Campaign thread: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...y-to-Sept-2014
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Regarding the discussions on ranks and crews...
- I do agree that these campaigns won't offer too many opportunities for lieutenants to exercise independent command (although eventually they could command Wave 2 sloops). But a frigate or larger ship could have a captain and a lieutenant at the same time. Would that make things more fun? Would they have to split experience, or both gain from success (certainly a captain could make sure that a success reflected favorably on a subordinate's reputation and prospects)? During battle would all their skills be added together? Would the skills for a lieutenant be different (a subset?) from those of a captain?
- Certainly captains could switch ships, but there were also cases of captains serving a long time on a single ship and becoming closely connected. Ideally the campaign can handle both dynamics. Possibly there could even be some advantage granted for maintaining continuity(?). Some open questions include the extent to which the scenarios will support using the same ship repeatedly, and the time periods assumed to elapse between scenarios and the possibility for a ship can be repaired and reused, etc. These issues might be a bit more predictable in future iterations where we may have a more cohesive overarching campaign narrative.
Potential crew abilities-
The ones from the Ares website work really well I believe, they are-
Good Aim-When firing a broadside, and opponet draws one or more "0s", you may use this ability to make them draw an additional counter (may be used twice)
Well-trained gunners- Single broadside may be reloaded after it has fired (may be used once)
Elite Marines- When shooting muskets, if a "0" damage counter is drawn, you may force the opponent to draw an additional counter (may be used once)
Hold Fast- Ship has one free crew damage box left to take a crew hit in, the ship may take an additional three crew hits before surrendering
Skilled Quartermaster- May increase Veer by 1 for duration o the turn (may be used twice)
In addition other crew abilities could be Fast repair, Fast fire fighting, skilled pumping, Rifle-equipped marines, and Skilled boarders
Also for the first scenarios I know we are using wave one ships. All I have is a starter kit and one or two of every wave 2 ship. I hope it will be ok with everyone if I can sub in and out with wave two ships for the wave one ships. I plan on accquiring more once my store gets some in and my wallet recovers from the $300 dollar intial investment, and the wife lets me spend again...
I'm seriously exited for this, looks like it's going to be great. I am sailing with the tricolour at the mizzen, and my captains are as follows:
1) Émilien Donat L’heureux
2) Jean-Michel Hugo Lopez
3) Dieudonné Vincent Pélissard
4) Jean-Charles Gervais Bouvard
5) Eugène Ferdinand Broussard
6) Louis-Marcel Charles de Laleuf
7) Théodore Raphaël Daubresse
8) Luc-Alphonse-Christian Gaudeau
Being for the French, it was necessary for me to be fashionably late to the party. Also being a francophile and thus innately contrarymy officers will be from the Revolutionary and Imperial Armies since I know them better! CONFUSION TO OUR ENEMIES
Captain Louis Gabriel Suchet
Captain Jean Lannes
Captain Louis Nicolas Davout
Captain Louis Lazare Hoche
Captain Louis Charles Antoine Desaix
Lt Antoine Drouot
Lt Jean Maximilien Lamarque
Lt François Séverin Marceau-Desgraviers
No problem with swapping. We didn't want to require Wave 2 ships due to their recent release and the mast problems. Scenarios should be written in such a way that players have a degree of flexibility in choosing ships, anyway.Originally Posted by CSherrange
Also for the first scenarios I know we are using wave one ships. All I have is a starter kit and one or two of every wave 2 ship. I hope it will be ok with everyone if I can sub in and out with wave two ships for the wave one ships. I plan on accquiring more once my store gets some in and my wallet recovers from the $300 dollar intial investment, and the wife lets me spend again...
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Daniel, you fearless leaders have been added to the roster. PM me with an email address and I will invite you to the google spreadsheet.
For those interested, the French have the most players. Is a revolution occurring here?
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
I am interested in possibly joining this, but I may wait until the 2015 campaign. At any rate it will be interesting to occasionally pop in and see how everyone is doing on it.
Last edited by Jack Tar; 06-28-2014 at 20:22.
Last Call
1. If you have any other suggestions for campaign-related rules for our first campaign, please submit today. I will update the campaign rules first thing tomorrow morning. The campaign rules are located at the beginning of this thread.
2. If you have not submitted a roster for this campaign, please do so and I will add it to the google spreadsheet.
3. If you have not PMed me with your email address, please do so and I will invite you to the google spreadsheet.
I am working on a scheme to determine captain injuries, deaths, and captures, AAR guidelines, and scenario writing guidelines.
We need to solidify the maneuver and basic combat rules. In the future, we'll develop a more advanced set of rules to include boarding, etc., play testing it in the October-December campaign.
We need to solidify a list of captain/crew skills, expanding on the captain/crew deck options.
We need to solidify a character advancement/promotion scheme.
Any suggestions to the solo rules, please make them on the solo rule thread. Any suggestions regarding the upcoming July-September campaign, please make them on the campaign thread.
Solo Rule thread: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...lopment-thread
Campaign thread: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...y-to-Sept-2014
Last edited by 7eat51; 06-30-2014 at 08:46.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
I changed the name of this thread to Solo Campaign Development Discussions - July to Sept. 2014.
I am working on a closed sticky thread that will contain the rules and associated links for our campaign. Closed means nobody other than me will be able to post there; sticky means it will always be accessible at the top of the forum. By keeping such threads closed, one could go to the thread and find rules, etc. without wading through comments and discussions.
Each scenario writer will post his/her scenario in the 2014 Solo Campaigns forum, and each player will post his/her AARs there. I will then copy each scenario and links to the associated AARs into a closed sticky for ease of reference.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Please take a look at the latest version of the solo campaign rules at this sticky, closed thread: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...5188#post35188
Please post any comments to this thread, and I will edit the sticky accordingly.
I will add the captain wounded/killed/captured rules tomorrow.
I will add AAR writing guidelines this week.
We need ideas/info for promotions and decorations. We have a couple for the U.S. to be added.
We could use additional captain/crew abilities.
The scenario writing schedule and campaign roster are posted.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Rosters have been updated on the google spreadsheet
I will be uploading AI captains.
As for crews, we will note crews that have gained abilities separately, as they might be less frequent and not as long-lasting.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Looks good!
Some comments:
- Maybe we should allow captains to earn crew cards from the abilities deck, and not just captain cards. These would allow them to grant that ability to their crew, just for the duration of the engagement? Like if a captain had "skilled quartermaster" then maybe that would indicate they were good at training masters, or promoting the right people into the job. Good Aim could indicate that they were good at training their crew. etc.
- Can lieutenants ride along under captains (in frigates and larger ships)?
- If the player has multiple ships in the scenario, does each get a captain from their ranks?
- Some ideas for new abilities
-- evasive maneuver: once per game, when the player's ship would collide with another ship, he can play this card so they do not collide, are not entangled, and are not subject to grappling/boarding the next turn
-- deft with the helm: once per game, after all ships have moved, the player can play this card, and rotate the ship. The procedure is that any one corner of the ship is fixed, and the opposite corner can rotate by up to the width of the ruler.
-- close to the wind: once per game, when wind facing is determined, if the ship is in the red zone, it can be rotated the minimum amount, so that it is straddling the red and yellow, and thus is considered to have a yellow wind aspect.
-- spilling wind: once per game, when the player is moving their ship, they can choose to stop at an intermediate spot along the arrow, and not at the end as normal.
-- small target: once per game, when fired upon by a ship with a larger burden at less than 1/2 ruler distance, you may play this card, and the number of chits of damage taken is reduced by one-third (rounded up)
Good questions, Fred.
I was thinking about some of the crew abilities along similar lines. Maybe instead of adopting them outright, we could have an ability for supervision that grants some form of bonus to crew members performing certain tasks. Either way, I think it would be good to expand both lists.
Lieutenants could ride along, but, personally, I wouldn't have them affect gameplay, otherwise it could become cumbersome regarding record keeping, divvying up ability acquisition points, overpowering a ship with officers having abilities, etc. For story writing, etc., they could add color.
Each ship on the board will have a captain from the player or AI roster, each gaining experience and ability acquisition points as earned. It can make it interesting when AI captains become stronger along with player captains. As for AI rosters, it is difficult for me to create names at present because we are not playing a thematic campaign in which everyone is from one of two sides. So for this campaign, I will instruct folks to name their AI captains as they go along. I think it might be good to use captain with a small "c" when referring to the head of a ship, and Captain with a capital "C" when referring to the rank, or some such differentiator.
I like all of your suggested abilities, but I am not sure about the last one. Would it make more sense at more than 1/2 ruler distance? I would like to hear your logic behind this because my knowledge of AoS seamanship and combat is not extensive - always eager to learn.
Fred, once you feel comfortable with the scenario guidelines as far as your scenario goes, let me know. I will ensure a couple more items in the rules are taken care of, and then we'll begin. I would like to finish the captain wounded/killed/captured rules, add your new abilities, etc.
You have me thinking here. Do you think it would be a good idea to dispense with crew abilities and only focus on captain abilities, but add the crew abilities to the captain's list as if the captain is influencing the crew? It could make things easier regarding gameplay and record keeping. Since we're not going for a simulation, do you think such an abstraction is acceptable?
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
ok, the idea originated from the scenario in the first O'Brien book, where the Sophie was so low to the water that the Spanish frigate couldn't depress its guns to hit at short range. Maybe it should be "low profile target"
I think I'm ready to go--I've made the suggested changes to the scenario and I think it meets the guidelines. The only open issue is that I'm still not sure how the scenario victory conditions map to the campaign experience rewards, but I'm thinking you will handle that (?)
Personally I think this idea is better. In principle I like the idea of tracking ships and developing a crack crew and a history for each ship. But practically speaking the scenarios (plus damage effects?) may not allow a given ship to be used all that often anyway (since they are not tightly coupled into a single narrative), and as others have stated, crews do often get decimated pretty badly. So maybe keeping it simple and focusing on the captains will give better results, especially for the first campaign
A scenario's victory points should be developed to give players a feel for how the game went. What you showed me was great. As for accruing points for ability acquisition, that is based on the campaign rules outlying how points are earned. This will be determined at the end of the AAR when players summarize victories. I will spell this out. Outside of the obvious sink/capture a ship, there could be a point or two earned if the scenario had other than ship-to-ship combat as a goal. For example, let's say the player had to keep the AI ships from crossing the playing board and exiting on the player's side. This could be done by sinking the ships or driving them into retreat. If the AI ships disengage and retreat, exiting their own side safely, the player should still receive some sort of ability acquisition point even if no ship was sunk. Otherwise, abilities are only tied to sinking ships, which does not seem quite right to me and would only encourage players to forego strategic goals for the sake of racking up kills. It is like in chess when a player goes around capturing pieces while his/her opponent says "Checkmate". Again, this would be handled at the end of an AAR, and only for those scenarios in which a strategic goal is tied to something beyond dueling - in other words, no double dipping. I see this really coming into play with advanced rules that can support scenarios in which a player captures a fort or some such thing.
Let's wait a day and see if anyone else responds to the captain/crew ability issue. Your support for the idea of captain only but with broader range of abilities is pushing me in that direction - easier without much loss I think.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Hi Fred,
I am including your ability suggestions, rewording them a bit so it is clear that an AI captain can have the ability also.
For Evasive Maneuver, I am not including the boarding part so as not to cause confusion with this campaign. For the next campaign, when boarding is a possibility, we can include it, or create another ability, for example Defensive Captain - once per game the captain can deny a boarding action.
Again, thank you for all of your work on the solo rules and this campaign.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Folks, in the previous few posts, Fred and I have discussed the captain/crew abilities. Both of us are under the opinion that with this first campaign, it might be better to only have captain abilities, and to expand those abilities to cover some of the crew abilities, as if the captain was able to provide sufficient supervision. Please take a look at our discussion and share your thoughts.
We should everything ready to go tomorrow or Thursday. Fred has the scenario ready, and I am finishing the last few rules that need to be in place before gameplay. Any feedback is appreciated.
Solo Rules: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...eptember-Rules
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Additional rules have been added.
We need to devise a mechanism to determine if a surrendered ship results in the captain being captured. One possibility is for surrenders to automatically result in capture. If the capturing ship, in turn, surrenders, the captain is freed. Another possibility, especially if other ships are in the area and able to engage the victorious ship, is for the first ship to touch the surrendered ship and remain there the following turn, secures the surrendered ship's captain. The ship basically foregoes maneuvering in the securing turn as if it was grappled - since we're playing with a basic rule set, some degree of abstraction is necessary. Captured captains will miss 1D6 scenarios. Thoughts?
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
I’m for just tracking the Captains. I like the idea of including the crew abilities as additions to the list the captains can choose from. Shows that some captains put more importance on some crew skills over others. Plus I can’t seem to keep 50% of my crew alive with the exception of the larger ships, so this would give the smaller ships a more even chance as far as skills go.
I like the idea of the first ship to touch the surrendered ship. Gives you a chance to try and run off the enemy to keep them away form your ship, or to go for a daring rescue and attempt to save a favorite captain.
My thinking exactly. From a gameplay standpoint, it offers a decision without a lot of mechanics involved. It could even serve as the basis for a scenario.
By having to stay stationary one turn, it comes with a little cost, again making the player have to think about the choice.
We would need a rule for surrendered ships as to when another AI ship would attempt the rescue or the capture. Maybe something like if it is within one ruler of the surrendered ship, and the player's ship is more than one ruler from both the Ai and surrendered ship, it goes to the surrendered ship. Otherwise, it prepares to attack or defend itself against the oncoming player's ship. Something like that that has a measure of logic but is also easy to determine.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
We would need a rule for surrendered ships as to when another AI ship would attempt the rescue or the capture. Maybe something like if it is within one ruler of the surrendered ship, and the player's ship is more than one ruler from both the Ai and surrendered ship, it goes to the surrendered ship. Otherwise, it prepares to attack or defend itself against the oncoming player's ship. Something like that that has a measure of logic but is also easy to determine.[/QUOTE]
I think this is a good start. It’s simple and easy to do plus has some logic to it. If I get a chance later today I will have to try it out and see how it works.
Great, Rob. Thanks.
At this point, we need either quick play testing, or to allow the campaign to be the play test. If something seems reasonable and easy, I say go for it and adjust as we go. This is a community effort, so hearing input from folks throughout the campaign is important, and sometimes, personally, I need to interact with something a bit, and have some time to think about it subsequently, before rendering an opinion.
I look forward to hearing your feedback if you get the chance.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Would surrendered ships, whose captain has not been captured yet, be an auto-capture for the winner at the end of the game?
I thought about this and I think it would have pros and cons. If not, the Captain in the last ship could never be captured as surrendering his ship effectively ends the game. If yes, we could simplify the rule to the "winner takes it all". Picking up the Captain would only make sense if you would make a run afterwards.
I think if the only remaining ships of a given side on the board are surrendered, and if the opposing side as at least one functioning ship remaining, then the surrendered captain(s) can be considered auto-captured without having to sail around and touching bases.
I would not phrase it winner takes all because a given side could win by achieving strategic goals without having defeated all of the enemy's ships. So for clarity's sake, I would phrase it - "If the only remaining ships of a given side on the board are surrendered, and if the opposing side as at least one functioning ship remaining, then the surrendered captain(s) are auto-captured".
I would keep the option of securing surrendered captains during the game because it adds decisions, and could make for interesting engagements.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Updated the solo rules. Feedback is appreciated.
Solo Rules
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Eric, it just occurred to me to ask that before we post AAR's can we submit them for review by those who have better rules knowledge of SoG? I'm still in basic rules mode and may not have all the rules down 100%. I don't want post errors as part of an AAR and thereby cause confusion.
Or are the AAR's generally peer reviewed for errors, corrections, etc. by fellow captains? I'm fine either way I guess although I'd prefer not making embarrassing mistakes in game play?
Jim, part of the joy of these campaign is writing with and for friends. No need to ever feel embarrassed. So many times did I realize, while writing, that I played something wrong. Fortunately, I was in good company. When managing multiple craft, it is quite easy. Similarly, the solo games is where many of the rules started to take root for me. Don't worry; simply enjoy the ride. That is the best advice I can give to anyone wanting to join us.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
I can accept that. The ride may well be bumpy at times, most likely when I'm driving, or should I say commanding. :)
The rules should be sufficiently done to allow us to begin play. I will continue to edit them as we proceed, and will announce such changes here.
I edited all of the captain/crew abilities to be for captains only. We will forego tracking crew experience. The abbreviation for each captain ability will used in the spreadsheet.
Please remember to include the AAR tally at the end of each AAR for every captain used in a given scenario. Post campaign AARs in the campaign forum.
Any suggestion for improvement is welcome
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Okay I got a chance to try this out last night. The idea seemed to work out just fine. I ended up with a nice tense moment when I had to let an enemy frigate escape so that I could distract the enemy 3rd rate that was getting ready to capture the captain of my surrendered ship. One more shot should have taken care of the enemy frigate, but it was let it go or lose a captain.
Very cool!
This is the kind of story impact that makes for enjoyable playing and AARs.
Thanks for testing.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
One thing I'm not clear on is AI captains (I apologize if I somehow missed this in the rules). I've seen some references to them--suggesting they will also be tracked and gain experience. I notice they are on the spreadsheet. Do we need to assign names to them? Do we just pick any AI captain for the opposition before playing the scenario, or select one randomly, or?
Also, did I see somewhere that some of our captains are supposed to start with abilities, or did I imagine that? If the former, how do they get chosen and assigned?
- Assign names to your AI captains as you need them. The first two mini-campaigns will have generically written scenarios given the various nations represented. Next year as we do a thematic scenario, I will develop the AI captain roster.
- Choose AI captains from the available roster. Sometimes, captains are unavailable due to wounds or capture.
- Choose any two captains, and assign each one an ability. I have assigned the AI captains' abilities already.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Fred, I edited the rules to address your questions, and to make things clearer. Please let me know what you think. Thanks.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Eric, I don't wish to complicate the record keeping, but I'm currently on a second computer that cannot access the Player and AI Rosters. Clicking on the link in post #3 in this thread takes me to a .edu website requiring a username login and password. I'm assuming this is the Google Document on your university account, but it's not letting me through to view contents? Thanks.
That's odd, Jim.
I am going to make a new googledoc and invite you. Let me know if you can access that. It will be a relatively blank document we can use as a test.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
I can only access the Google document via the email link you provide and then logging into Google itself. I don't have email on the second computer, laptop or tablet so getting to the spreadsheet of information wont work when I'm in the basement gaming/hobby area.
Just an fyi that if you click on the "Player Roster" link in Post #3 in this thread you'll see it still takes you to the university website: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...y-to-Sept-2014
Last edited by Nightmoss; 07-03-2014 at 18:34. Reason: typo
Hi Jim,
I will contact our 'Drome members who set up the google rosters there, and ask for advice. It might be a day or two before I get this sorted out. You can still play the scenario if you want; not having access to the google spreadsheet won't hamper that. If you want a given AI captain to have an ability, I would choose either Charismatic or Iron Captain. Those are the ones I assigned to the two AI captains because I think they provide the best chance for survival early on. If you rather assign a different one, please feel free to do so.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Thanks Eric. Not a critical need as I wrote down the important stuff and have that near where I'll endeavor to set up the game soon. Not sure if that will happen over the Holiday weekend or not? Cheers!
If you play this weekend, Jim, let me know if you think any rules need another look or are unclear. I know of a few things that need to be fleshed out - hopefully this weekend.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
This questions came up in our regional german forum:
Do we use only Basic rules or whatever suits us?
Do we, as the AI has to to, use only Ball Ammo?
Especially, the July scenario cries for the possibility to use Grape Shot Ammo.
Looking forward to playing the scenario next week. Getting some games in this weekend with my father.
I want to announce the two captain's abilities:
Capitaine de vaisseau Louis-Jean-Nicolas Lejoille Aiming Captain
Capitaine de frégate Joseph Marechallannes Charismatic Captain
I guess Eric is the arbiter of such matters.
I envisioned use of Grapeshot when I wrote the scenario, but didn't use it when I playtested it, so it should be winnable without it. However I'm certainly open to allowing it if Eric concurs
Found it (#143):
http://www.sailsofglory.org/showthre...5045#post35045
...Only basic rules!
I haven't done this kind of thing before, so as I said before, I would defer to what Eric says and his much greater experience (and if anyone else here has played the Wings of War solo campaigns feel free to chip in).
Having said that, I think the bottom line is to have fun. So, if a given individual feels they will enjoy it a lot more using advanced rules, I'd be inclined to say they should go for it, even though that's not the campaign parameters.
There may be small effects on play balance, but my sense is that the scenario should be difficult-but-competitive with all different rule combinations.
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