Solo Play rule development thread

[Nightmoss]

I thought the fortune could take the broadsite shot and the musketry aswell.
There is no rule you should choose one of both.

So a missed chance by the fortune... Not so fortuned!

Ah, I see how I messed that up. Thank you. And musketry fire does not require reloading so you can shoot every turn if you're in range. That would have made a difference in last nights solo game as well, but only on one or two turns?

One more question/comment concerning French 1st rates and the wind attitude indicator. The rules tell you to match the indicator with the main mast of a ship to determine if the ship is going to use beating/running, reaching or taken back. As the main mast of the French 1st rates is set back from the card/base center it can make a difference in what read you'll get from the indicator. I went with rules as written, but I could see some folks questioning this? How would you rule?

[Ducky]

I believe musketry only needs sort of planning in advanced games where you need to plan the action to fire musketry;
So it needs no reloading and can be used in subsequent turns.

I always use the main mast ruling, could be the reason that there is a slight difference in where the color changes from red to orange between french and british design ships? I recall there is a difference...

[Nightmoss]

I believe musketry only needs sort of planning in advanced games where you need to plan the action to fire musketry;
So it needs no reloading and can be used in subsequent turns.

I always use the main mast ruling, could be the reason that there is a slight difference in where the color changes from red to orange between french and british design ships? I recall there is a difference...

Again, thanks for the answer(s).

I'll probably try one more basic rules solo game before I move on to standard and advanced rules. As I said before I think the grid system is working quite well. And while I would never claim to be a good sailor, I'm finding the AI system quite adroit at kicking my @!?%!

Will the current grid stay in place and a new one added for the Wave 2 ships or will Fred, you and others be modifying this one for inclusion of the new ships? If I recall correctly the upcoming scenarios aren't going to include any of the Wave 2 ships so it's not something that's urgent by any means.

[Ducky]

I think the grid system needs only minor adjustments, If any are needed.
I could think the system maybe needs some adjustments for the ocean class SOL or the sloops.

Maybe be should try the current system first with those ships.

And indeed I also got my ass kicked some times by the AI ships.
Thats a good thing cause it means their movement is quite good, most of the games I played against AI where decided by the damage chits drawn.

But indeed we can take our time since they arent included in the first campaign.

I really appreciate your playtesting Jim and the feedback and questions you come up with!

[fredmiracle]

One more question/comment concerning French 1st rates and the wind attitude indicator. The rules tell you to match the indicator with the main mast of a ship to determine if the ship is going to use beating/running, reaching or taken back. As the main mast of the French 1st rates is set back from the card/base center it can make a difference in what read you'll get from the indicator. I went with rules as written, but I could see some folks questioning this? How would you rule?

Like you and Thijs, I too have been playing rules-as-written, and measuring to the mainmast (specifically I've been using the base of the mainmast). On almost all ships the mainmast is behind the centerpoint. So this will definitely have an effect on things when they are close, but the exact magnitude of the effect will vary from ship to ship.

A recent thread about raking suggested that many people prefer to measure to the center of the base, however. So I guess you can do that if you prefer and are consistent about it. Personally I don't like to have to take the ship on and off the base a lot...

[Nightmoss]

I think the grid system needs only minor adjustments, If any are needed.
I could think the system maybe needs some adjustments for the ocean class SOL or the sloops.

Maybe be should try the current system first with those ships.

And indeed I also got my ass kicked some times by the AI ships.
Thats a good thing cause it means their movement is quite good, most of the games I played against AI where decided by the damage chits drawn.

But indeed we can take our time since they arent included in the first campaign.

I really appreciate your playtesting Jim and the feedback and questions you come up with!

I've really enjoyed playing the solo games and I thank everyone who's been involved with their creation. It takes me back to when I would play Avalon Hill wargames solo (because no one could be talked into trying them). I'd move from one side of the kitchen table to the other shuffling the cardboard counters "objectively" trying to beat the opponent on each turn. It didn't always work, but it was fun just the same.

Planning forward I think the solo scenario campaigns are going to be great. With a bit more experience now at least I can start thinking about how to write one up. It will be interesting to see if Eric returns from Origins with any ideas on how we might want to plan them out?

I did use the French 1st rate last night. While there were some cards called for in the grid that didn't exist in the "F" deck the ship AI did extremely well. There was only one collision and that ended on the next move.

[Nightmoss]

Like you and Thijs, I too have been playing rules-as-written, and measuring to the mainmast (specifically I've been using the base of the mainmast). On almost all ships the mainmast is behind the centerpoint. So this will definitely have an effect on things when they are close, but the exact magnitude of the effect will vary from ship to ship.

A recent thread about raking suggested that many people prefer to measure to the center of the base, however. So I guess you can do that if you prefer and are consistent about it. Personally I don't like to have to take the ship on and off the base a lot...

Thanks Fred. It was that raking thread that made me wonder about the wind attitude indicator as it relates to the main mast. I think for myself sticking with the main mast is best (I don't like removing ships either). If I remember right the raking discussion ended with a stance that if the line of fire passes through both short ends of the base you've got a raking shot?

[Nightmoss]

Here's another request for clarification on the solo rules use. When the AI ship and a player ship get within long range you add 1 to the die roll. When the AI ship and a player ship are within short range you add 2 to the die roll. Due to how the ships have moved in games I've tested so far it's never been difficult to know what die roll you need to use, until today.

So, is measurement to determine when to roll 1 or 2 taken from the main mast of the AI ship to the base of the player ship? Or, is it taken from any point on the base of the AI ship to the base of a player ship?

For consistency we could use the main mast as it is used for wind attitude indication? Or, we could use a measurement from the red dots as used in determining range for firing guns (I guess I would use the red dot closest to the player ship if we go that route). Thoughts?

[Ducky]

I use the red dots from the AI ship to players ship base, so the same as with shooting to keep things simple

[Nightmoss]

I use the red dots from the AI ship to players ship base, so the same as with shooting to keep things simple

Sounds good to me. It's how I played it last night. Another solo game with Basic Rules (Black Pearl and Royal Fortune against the Queen Anne's Revenge). It was an interesting battle and I"ll try to get at least a brief AAR up so you can comment on my interpretation and use of the rules.

One thing I'm going to look into is a better means of marking ships that have be moved or removed while you're trying to resolve collisions? My mats are still too new and slippery so there's a lot of jostling going on as well.

[soul taker]

I played a game with these rules last night. I thought the AI ships moved really well, better then me more then once. There was a couple of times were I thought the AI ship had an odd choice for a movement, but after moveing the ships that turn it allways seemed to be the right choice.

[7eat51]

I have to catch up on this past week's posts in this thread, and I am not sure if this is covered in the captain/crew deck, but based on some of the battles at Origins, we could have a crew ability card that diminishes some of the effects of crew damage, e.g. ignore the first two crew hits taken. This would be available as a given crew survives and gains experience. Crew damage put several relatively untouched ships out of commission.

I will work on all non-movement rules associated with the campaign this week, posting them for your feedback.

[fredmiracle]

My experiences to date suggest that that it would be beneficial to do some more fine tuning to the handling of advanced rule issues like crew actions and boarding.

On my "cheat sheet" I put some proposed revisions to how actions should be prioritized, as compared to what is listed in the rulebook. For one thing, they forgot about pumping. For another, the rulebook prioritizes musketry higher than I would. But there is definitely some room to give more flexibility. For example, in some cases (lots of hull but low on actions) it's probably better to repair the leak, but defer the pumping and allow some water to accumulate.

Similarly, there is the question of how the AI should handle grappling and boarding. I.e., when would it like to grapple and when would it try to avoid it.

All these can be left to "player's discretion" but maybe it would be helpful to have some guidelines...

[Nightmoss]

I played a game with these rules last night. I thought the AI ships moved really well, better then me more then once. There was a couple of times were I thought the AI ship had an odd choice for a movement, but after moveing the ships that turn it allways seemed to be the right choice.

I know what you mean. The AI frequently makes me feel quite inept?!

[Nightmoss]

My experiences to date suggest that that it would be beneficial to do some more fine tuning to the handling of advanced rule issues like crew actions and boarding.

On my "cheat sheet" I put some proposed revisions to how actions should be prioritized, as compared to what is listed in the rulebook. For one thing, they forgot about pumping. For another, the rulebook prioritizes musketry higher than I would. But there is definitely some room to give more flexibility. For example, in some cases (lots of hull but low on actions) it's probably better to repair the leak, but defer the pumping and allow some water to accumulate.

Similarly, there is the question of how the AI should handle grappling and boarding. I.e., when would it like to grapple and when would it try to avoid it.

All these can be left to "player's discretion" but maybe it would be helpful to have some guidelines...

I've not graduated to Standard or Advanced Rules yet, so I'll take the easy way out and defer to your and others decisions.

[7eat51]

All these can be left to "player's discretion" but maybe it would be helpful to have some guidelines...

I think the solo rules should provide guidelines on such matters so players can have some consistency throughout a campaign. Player discretion comes in when the AI mechanism proposes something that just doesn't make sense given what is on the table. If discretion is used too often, however, one might as well simply play both sides. I have often had the AI mechanism do unexpected things, and that is what made the games fun. I expected one thing, and another thing happened. Only when the mechanism would have resulted in a plane flying off the board unnecessarily, for example, did I overrule the AI charts/rules.

I look forward to reading what you think about grappling and boarding. I suggest some type of die roll with factor modifiers - simple and quick. For example, on a 5 or 6, board. For every two crew counter advantage, add +1 to the die roll; for every … add …

Here is an example from OTT regarding crashing/wound effects. This type of mechanism is quite easy to navigate and takes minimal time to resolve:

Resolution of Crashes/Wounds etc

This is how we resolve what happens when a pilot is shot down, crashes, or, is wounded:
Updates in Red are applied to Mission 9 onwards

Roll 2D6

Crashing and wounded Effects Table:
2 or less - Dead!
3-4 - Severely Injured - Skip 1D6Scenarios
5-6 - Injured - Skip 1D3 Scenarios
7-8 - Bruised - Skip 1 Scenario
9+ - All well when you land well!

Modifiers to dice roll:
Ace: +2 ------------------------Your pilots skill helps his landing
Exploded: -3 --------------------Boom card drawn for any reason - overrides flamer/collision
Flamer: -2 ----------------------Downed by fire or downed whilst burning
Collision: -2 ---------------------Downed due to Collision
Shot Down -1 -------------------Just shot to bits!
Wounded: -1 per wound ---------Receive 2 wounds & you're shot down
Landed safely in Aerodrome: +3
Crash landed in No Mans Land or Sea -1

[soul taker]

I have to catch up on this past week's posts in this thread, and I am not sure if this is covered in the captain/crew deck, but based on some of the battles at Origins, we could have a crew ability card that diminishes some of the effects of crew damage, e.g. ignore the first two crew hits taken. This would be available as a given crew survives and gains experience. Crew damage put several relatively untouched ships out of commission.

I will work on all non-movement rules associated with the campaign this week, posting them for your feedback.

There is a Capt. and crew card that has a similar effect. Both of them take effect when you only have one crew box left. Charismatic Captain, and Hold Fast.

[7eat51]

Thanks, Rob. I will read through that deck this week. I haven't used it yet, so I am unfamiliar with it.

I wonder if there could be a card that takes effect in the beginning as opposed to the last box, something like "Hit the Deck" or "Take Cover". One, this would enable a ship to have its crew during a fight, and, two, this would go along with the system I am preparing for crew experience (this will make more sense once presented for feedback).

[7eat51]

Great work folks. I just read through the past week's postings and looked at the latest maneuver rule version - nicely done. I will play a solo game tomorrow after work, and will post my reflections. This is pretty exciting.

For this first campaign, I think all sails should be set to battle sails, and all ammo should be ball, for both sides. During the second mini campaign, we can work out a mechanism for sail settings and ammo choices, if so desired. For our group campaigns, the rules need to be fairly straightforward and quick; for non-campaign games, the rules can be as complex as folks desire. As we play, we can make adjustments based on our experience and insights.

I will start posting basic Campaign related rules (non-maneuver) during the coming week, soliciting your feedback.

[Ducky]

We appreciate your opinion on the movement chart Eric

[7eat51]

I am in the middle of a game, and so far the mechanism works quite easily. I have to remind myself to add 1 when within a ruler, but other than that, all is going well. The maneuvers seem to make sense. Well done.

I think some of the questions I have should be handled via campaign rules, so, at present, I have no real input on the charts. I think the campaign will be a good test as more players/perspectives interact with the solo rules and charts.

For me, SoG has just gone up a notch given the feasibility of basic solo play. It will be interesting to see what we can do with additional rules over time.

[Nightmoss]

I am in the middle of a game, and so far the mechanism works quite easily. I have to remind myself to add 1 when within a ruler, but other than that, all is going well. The maneuvers seem to make sense. Well done.

I think some of the questions I have should be handled via campaign rules, so, at present, I have no real input on the charts. I think the campaign will be a good test as more players/perspectives interact with the solo rules and charts.

For me, SoG has just gone up a notch given the feasibility of basic solo play. It will be interesting to see what we can do with additional rules over time.

I very much had that same reaction. I've enjoyed the game up until now primarily for the ships and modeling aspects, but now that there are these solo rules that work so well, it's opened up some new challenges and opportunities for fun.

[7eat51]

Jim, WoG really took off for me, no pun intended, with the solo campaigns. It is not easy coordinating schedules these days, and with so many different games to play, WoG did not hit the table often enough. What is nice about the campaigns is sharing the scenarios with others, so not only does one have the opportunity to play, but to play in community.

In the future, we should attempt a Skype game. I played in one on the 'Drome with members from around the world. The host did all of the movement, etc. using an overhead camera. All of the players had the appropriate maneuver decks, and would inform him of what cards we were playing. It was a lot of fun.

I also played in a WoG email game. Every few days, we would email our maneuvers, the host would play them, taking photos after each card. It, too, worked quite well.

Given today's technology, we have several options for group play that are relatively easy to implement. Once we have the first scenario under our belt in the upcoming campaign, we can try an additional format for a game. I will start a thread accordingly come that time, and we'll see what comes of it.

[Nightmoss]

Jim, WoG really took off for me, no pun intended, with the solo campaigns. It is not easy coordinating schedules these days, and with so many different games to play, WoG did not hit the table often enough. What is nice about the campaigns is sharing the scenarios with others, so not only does one have the opportunity to play, but to play in community.

In the future, we should attempt a Skype game. I played in one on the 'Drome with members from around the world. The host did all of the movement, etc. using an overhead camera. All of the players had the appropriate maneuver decks, and would inform him of what cards we were playing. It was a lot of fun.

I also played in a WoG email game. Every few days, we would email our maneuvers, the host would play them, taking photos after each card. It, too, worked quite well.

Given today's technology, we have several options for group play that are relatively easy to implement. Once we have the first scenario under our belt in the upcoming campaign, we can try an additional format for a game. I will start a thread accordingly come that time, and we'll see what comes of it.

Skype or emails games do sounds like fun. I wonder if it's the future of gaming, especially for folks in very remote locations? Makes me think of one aspect of Asimov's "The Naked Sun".

[7eat51]

Later today, I will post some solo rules for your consideration and feedback. I think we have a good set of maneuver guidelines, so once we has out a few more items, we should be good to go for the campaign. I reserved a bunch of posts in the beginning of the campaign thread in which I will gather all of our rules once finalized, including links to files/pdfs.

[fredmiracle]

Skype or emails games do sounds like fun. I wonder if it's the future of gaming, especially for folks in very remote locations? Makes me think of one aspect of Asimov's "The Naked Sun".

Yes, I'd like to figure out a system for straightforward online play. Ideally it would not necessarily require both players to be online simultaneously, since we have members from around the world and with all different work and family schedules.

It would be useful for people without gaming groups or who just need a quick SoG fix; but it would also enable online tournaments and such. A valuable resource for building the online community...

[7eat51]

Fred, I forgot if it was here or on the 'Drome, but someone inquired about Vassal. Have you ever used it?

[fredmiracle]

I have played around a bit with Vassal, just enough to be dangerous. It seems it's mostly aimed for "interactive" play (i.e. with both people online simultaneously), but perhaps it has a PBM capability too (?)

I imagine it would work, if "someone" were to take the effort to create a module.

One issue is that unlike a standalone boardgame, it would need regular updating as new ships are released. This is the kind of thing that often falls by the wayside--the one person that understands it gets busy, and oh well...

Another potential issue is that it might ruffle Ares' feathers, since one would (presumably) have to scan in not only the ship mats, but all the maneuver cards as well. I felt a little twinge about uploading just my spreadsheet--even though I think it's a resource which could only help encourage sales of the game. Creating a full online play environment with maneuver decks might also encourage sales of the game by creating more excitement and online community, but it would be a judgement call, and quite possibly more than Ares would tolerate.

[7eat51]

Keith and I briefly spoke about Vassal, and he raised the copyright issue as well. I have never used Vassal, but I know of its existence through BGG.

I agree completely about something like a Vassal game being reliant upon a given individual's effort. Unless a community contributes, such ventures could be short lived.

Once the solo campaigns are underway, we could try a play-by-email game. I played in one on the 'Drome, and the host devised a very nice system for it. It was very easy for the players to engage. The host needs a space in which a game can be left up for a couple of weeks, and a good camera to capture the positions of the ships. I think this could be easily done, and we can rotate hosting duty each game.

[Berthier]

There's also cyberboard software and another called Zen I think for gaming, either live or by alternating emailled moves. I've played boardgames using cyberboard and it works well although the system was a bit clunky.

[7eat51]

Disengagement Rule

Here is the first of several solo rules not focused on maneuvers. The following first draft is offered to generate discussion on disengaging, so feel free to make suggestions for improvement; a final decision/ruling will be made by 29 June to give our first scenario writer the opportunity to make any desired changes to the scenario.

Disengagement

When a ship is within the last three boxes of hull damage or crew hits, role a 6-sided die for disengagement: 1-4 = remain in battle; 5-6 = disengage. Roll each time a ship takes additional damage. Disengaging ships will attempt to exit their side as directly as possible, and will avoid combat, only taking shots of opportunity. The nature of disengaging can be altered based on scenario specific rules.

Modifiers to Disengagement Die Rolls
+1 if both hull damage and crew hits are within the last three boxes
+1 for each enemy ship that is not disengaging (we can set a limit like within 1 ruler, if desired)
-1 for each friendly ship that is not disengaging (we can set a limit like within 1 ruler, if desired)
-1 based on Captain/Crew skills (to be determined)

[7eat51]

Solo maneuver chart link is in post #99.

If the solo maneuver chart is finished, I will post a link to it in one of the reserved campaign posts for easy access.

[fredmiracle]

Solo maneuver chart link is in post #99.

If the solo maneuver chart is finished, I will post a link to it in one of the reserved campaign posts for easy access.

As far as I know, there are currently no changes contemplated or suggested.

[7eat51]

As far as I know, there are currently no changes contemplated or suggested.

Great. I will place the link accordingly.

[Ducky]

Green light on the solo movement chart!
Enough playtesting has been done to use it for the first solo campaign.

Due to diversity of players in the campaign some feedback on the chart may come during or after the campaign...

[Ducky]

I like the disengagement Rules aswell,
Haven't played with them but they really make sense!

[7eat51]

I like the disengagement Rules aswell,
Haven't played with them but they really make sense!

My approach is this - if it makes sense we'll use them, knowing that play testing could result in alterations. Once a few players think we have a reasonable rule in place, I will post them on the campaign thread.

[7eat51]

Summary of rules thus far is now listed in first post. I will continue to edit this post as we proceed.

[7eat51]

I am working on a scheme to determine captain injuries, deaths, and captures, AAR guidelines, and scenario writing guidelines.

We need to solidify the maneuver and basic combat rules. In the future, we'll develop a more advanced set of rules to include boarding, etc., play testing it in the October-December campaign.

We need to solidify a list of captain/crew skills, expanding on the captain/crew deck options.

We need to solidify a character advancement/promotion scheme.

Any suggestions to the solo rules, please make them on the solo rule thread. Any suggestions regarding the upcoming July-September campaign, please make them on the campaign thread.

Solo Rule thread: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...lopment-thread
Campaign thread: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...y-to-Sept-2014

[CSherrange]

Played my first game tonight with the solo mvement rules. I belive they worked splendidly. Used a British frigate from wave 2 vs the 2 American Sloops (my force). I barely managed a win, with one sloop gone and the other limping when the British frigate blew up due to two fire tokens and a raging blaze. The rules worked really well when it came to movement, and when it came to shooting at short range I rolled a die and on a 1-2 the AI fired Ball, 3-5 Grape, and on a 6 chain regardless of what was actually loaded on the AI vessel. Worked really well in my opinion.

[7eat51]

Last Call

1. If you have any suggestions for the basic rule set, please post today. I will update the finial rules tomorrow morning. They can be found at the beginning of this thread. I will create pdfs pertaining to the final rules and upload as files.
2. As we play the first campaign, please provide feedback on the basic rule set.
3. During the next three months, we'll work on an intermediate rule set. I will post some guidelines on that set later this month. The goal will be to have two or three rule sets that enable players to engage at different levels of complexity.

I am working on a scheme to determine captain injuries, deaths, and captures, AAR guidelines, and scenario writing guidelines.

We need to solidify the maneuver and basic combat rules. In the future, we'll develop a more advanced set of rules to include boarding, etc., play testing it in the October-December campaign.

We need to solidify a list of captain/crew skills, expanding on the captain/crew deck options.

We need to solidify a character advancement/promotion scheme.

Any suggestions to the solo rules, please make them on the solo rule thread. Any suggestions regarding the upcoming July-September campaign, please make them on the campaign thread.

Solo Rule thread: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...lopment-thread
Campaign thread: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...y-to-Sept-2014

[spiessbuerger]

only rule-questions:

1. The player plans the common two manoeuvers for his ship? AI only one? (standard/advanced rules)

2. I plan the AI actions after determining the AI manoeuver card? Otherwise I don't know exactly what broadside I should activate (advanced rules)

[7eat51]

1. With the basic rule set, the one we'll use for the first campaign, players only need to plan the current move. Once planned, roll for the AI move. In more advanced rule sets, we'll have plan ahead mechanism in place.

2. For the basic game and first campaign, there are no crew actions. In upcoming sets, additional rules will be incorporated.

[jmkinki]

Greetings,

I'm going to follow this post, because I'm interested in AI rules and solo campaign rules too.

I have started a contact with Eric and Fred. I'm still have to read carefully these rules in order to give you some suggestions. Now, I have started my holidays and my 3 daughters, and my soon requires a lot of time!

Eric, have you received my email with WoW solo rules? As far as you can see they are based in other ones published at WoW aerodrome, but I have added a decision diagram and 2 tables for each manoeuvre deck.

Something like that, I think it should be applied to SoG. A decision chart could be made taking in consideration number of enemy ships, distance to enemy ships or enemy ship classes for example.

[jmkinki]

Hi friends,

I'm writting rules... however I have made the first version of the decision diagram. I have called it decision assistance sheet:



I have to continue with solo template and manouevre tables... perhaps I need some help with this...

[Diamondback]

Looks like a good start there, JM. :) Seems logical.

[JAC]

Hi there!! long time without visiting...but at last... yesterday I managed to play some few solo games with the rules. I think it works GREEEAT!!!. The 3 letter system works just fine and it isSO easy to determine...the AI behave so well that I ended going out of the table (photos later).so I am ready to try the campaign. Thanks guys for all the work, sadly I didn´t help as much as i wanted but I will try to have some input as soon as i start playing the campaingn!!

[JAC]

where do I find the scenarios?

[7eat51]

Hi Jaime. Check out this forum: http://sailsofglory.org/forumdisplay...Solo-Campaigns

[Herkybird]

Hi all, dont know if anyone is interested, but I have done a set of solo rules for SofG which are now on the files page here: http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=97
..Or, the separate ship files and template are at: http://tynesidewargames.co.uk/downloads.html
I decided the original Wings of Glory solo rules I wrote were a good place to start, but have modified the basic system to make solo ships avoid going into the wind. The rules also account for crew allocation, boarding, etc - for standard and advanced rules users.
I hope they are a helpful addition to the game!