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Thread: On this day 1 June - The Glorious First of June Pt 5 - The Battle

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    Default On this day 1 June - The Glorious First of June Pt 5 - The Battle

    On the 1st of June 1794, the fleets of Admirals Howe and Villaret de Joyeuse engaged in the battle known as the Glorious First of June, Third Battle of Ushant, Bataille du 13 prairial an 2, or Combat de Prairial. At 9:24 a.m., the two lines began exchanging long-range cannon fire. Admiral Howe planned for each of his ships to turn and cut through the French line individually, effectively separating Villaret’s line in 25 places. While cutting, the British ships were to rake the associated French ships across the bow and stern. Howe’s grand tactic failed due to many of his captains not following his orders, and to the damaged condition of many of his ships. The HMS Defence, under Captain James Gambier, was the first British ship to cut through the French line. Unfortunately for Gambier, the failure of other British captains to follow suit left his vessel in a precarious position with several French ships. Of particular note was the failure of Captain Anthony Molloy of the HMS Caesar. Consistent with his actions on the 29th of May, a few days prior, Molloy refused to obey Howe’s orders, and, instead, ineffectively fired upon the Trajan. The Trajan, however, damaged the Caesar significantly, and proceeded to attack the HMS Bellerophon and other British ships unrestrainedly. After the initial cutting action, several duels started between British and French ships that separated from the pack, while other British ships merely engaged in long-range fire or no action at all, refusing to close aggressively with the French. Similarly, several of the French ships in the rear engaged the British timidly, if at all. By 10:30 a.m., confusion reigned as three distinct engagements were taking place.

    Those French ships that escaped Howe’s attack formed a separate force under Villaret’s command. As Villaret returned to fight, Howe met him with a reassembled force of his own. The two new lines engaged each other from a distance, as both fleets fought to gain control of the area, and to secure or capture as many of the dismasted ships as possible. The French admiral eventually abandoned the fight with Howe, and having recovered several of his ships, set sail for France, leaving the remaining ships to the British. Howe turned control over to his Captain of the Fleet, Sir Roger Curtis, and retired to his quarters. The British spent the rest of the day and night repairing their ships and securing their prizes, and set sail for Britain the next morning. Though the day ended with a tactical victory for Howe, the admiral failed to intercept the French convoy, which, on the 12th of June, arrived at France, having lost only one ship, and that due to weather.

    Admiral Villaret de Joyeuse:

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    Admiral Howe:

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    Map of the Battle’s Location:

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    Battle Map of the French and British Lines:

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    The Battle:

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    Name:  The_'Defence'_at_the_Battle_of_the_First_of_June,_1794.jpg
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    For more on today's event:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloriou..._of_June#notea
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_...ay_1794#28_May

  2. #2
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    So, not near as Glorious as advertised -- in fact, it would appear Howe (in keeping with his track record) failed miserably at his assigned task, and only barely managed to accomplish a distant-secondary goal.

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    Yeah, I kind of wondered about the name of that battle. By the time I finished reading on it, I wondered where the glory was. There were some captains on both sides that behaved admirably; but there were many that did not. I had some difficulty responding to Molloy; I am not sure what punishment would be befitting his actions. In the end, at least Villaret accomplished his charge of protecting the convoy via distraction.

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    Well I'm glad it isn't just my francophile tendencies that have also wondered why this was "glorious" because it clearly was not. A tactical victory that should have been completely over shadowed by the strategic defeat. The interception of the grain convoy would have left the French government in dire straits, may have even precipitated rebellions in the urban areas so it was no small matter and Villaret did an excellent job of keeping the hounds at bay. I always felt the title "Glorious First of June" was more for domestic political consumption in Britain who had little to cheer about since loosing the American colonies and performing poorly in the lowlands campaign during 1794 (eventually to evacuate the area in the following year).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    I always felt the title "Glorious First of June" was more for domestic political consumption in Britain
    Of course it was. Like the sobriquet "Incredible Victory" relating to Midway (which was a battle the USN could only have thrown away, but which was presented as an astounding victory against overwhelming odds to provide a massive and well needed national and international morale boost). As in so many aspects of history the cold facts tend to get swept away in the propaganda and the hype remains as "history"

    Mind you, a 7-0 result in terms of SoLs is pretty respectable :)
    Last edited by David Manley; 06-03-2013 at 10:34.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Of course it was. Like the sobriquet "Incredible Victory" relating to Midway (which was a battle the USN could only have thrown away, but which was presented as an astounding victory against overwhelming odds to provide a massive and well needed national and international morale boost). As in so many aspects of history the cold facts tend to get swept away in the propaganda and the hype remains as "history"
    Hardly -- the USN very nearly missed the IJN entirely; and half the USN bomber forces (the Devastators) flat-out didn't work. Couple that to the disaster resulting from _Tone_ launching one of its scouts late due to a catapult glitch*, and it as easily could have been a "victory" on the order of Coral Sea (that is: Not so anyone noticed).

    [*: That late-launching scout was the one which eventually spotted the US CVs -- while the Japanese crews were halfway through swapping out anti-ship loads for anti-land loads; this led to the sloppy manner in which the Japanese handled the various bombs, and thus allowed the US dive-bombers to inflict far more damage than they otherwise would have.]

    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Mind you, a 7-0 result in terms of SoLs is pretty respectable :)
    In terms of what had come previously, maybe -- previously, the only battles which resulted in multiple captured or destroyed enemy ships were the Battle of the Saintes, and a minor action with a Spanish convoy Jan. 8, 1780. When Nelson started wiping out entire battle fleets, it rather put Hood's work into perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    Hardly -- the USN very nearly missed the IJN entirely
    Exactly my point. The USN held all the aces and still nearly threw it away. See Parshall and Tully's recent(ish) analysis for more details. Both established navl historians of repute they caused an absolute sh*tstorm in some USN circles by pointing out the very significant advantages in materiel, intelligence, tactics and operations that the USN enjoyed over the Japanese, contrary to the very popular opinion of the time and the mythology that has persisted ever since (not helped of course by Fushida's fanciful "recollections" of the battle)

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    In terms of what had come previously, maybe
    Alas, despite all the innovations with which the Royal Navy has graced the world, the TARDIS is not one of them :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Exactly my point. The USN held all the aces and still nearly threw it away.
    Not quite "threw it away"; more like the time in _Car Wars_ where someone lined up a perfect point-blank shot -- and rolled a natural 2, an automatic miss. Or pretty-much any time Ambrose Burnside had to command a force larger than division-size: Div. and smaller, he was fine; anything larger, and the guy flat-out could not catch a break.

    In this case: Yes, the US had all those advantages -- but it doesn't amount to jack-s*** if the IJN is obscured by clouds, or is too far away, or any of the myriad reasons the USN could have missed the IJN.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Alas, despite all the innovations with which the Royal Navy has graced the world, the TARDIS is not one of them :)
    Also my point: Given the lack of results from large battles of the RN to that point, six captures plus one sunk is going to be "hot-s*** jubilee celebration time". :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    In this case: Yes, the US had all those advantages
    which was my point. Midway, similar to the Glorious First, was portrayed as the "incredible victory" for public consumption and morale boosting purposes, an amazing victory against overwhelming odds, whereas the truth was rather different. Yet the former is the collective memory. Similarly the Glorious First - of its time an amazing performance compared with the expected results of a major fleet action, yet nothing special to the observer arrived from 1815 by TARDIS -but the name was there and stuck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Midway, similar to the Glorious First, was portrayed as the "incredible victory" for public consumption and morale boosting purposes, an amazing victory against overwhelming odds, whereas the truth was rather different.
    And yet, given how easily Midway could have resulted in a no-score draw (or worse, losing _Yorktown_ while not managing to kill a fleet-CV in return), it actually *was* a "miracle" it worked out as it did.

    And re the "time-travel" comment: I did some research into battles from preceding British wars, to see what scores such battles produced. Some results:

    First Anglo-Dutch War:

    Portland: England 8-12, Netherlands 1-3 [reports vary]
    Gabbard: England 17 (6 sunk; 11 captured), Netherlands 0
    Scheveningen: England 12-30; Netherlands 2 [reports vary]

    Second Anglo-Dutch War:

    Lowestoft: England 17 (8 destroyed; 9 captured), Netherlands 1 (capture)
    Four Days Battle: Netherlands 10, England 4

    Third Anglo-Dutch War (are we sensing a theme here? :) ):

    Palermo: France 7, Netherlands/Spain 0

    Seven Years War:

    Lagos: Britain 5 (2 sunk; 3 captured), France 0
    Quiberon Bay: Britain 7 (6 sunk; 1 captured), France 0 (Mahan refers to this in his book as "the Trafalgar of this war")

    So, there were results as good or better than Hood's; the problem being: None of them had been accomplished in the most-recent war.
    Last edited by csadn; 06-06-2013 at 16:34.

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    Whilst I would agree that the Glorious First of June is perhaps the most important maritime event during the Revolutionary/Napoleonic Wars on 1st June, can I be as bold to mention a minor skirmish in a secondary theatre involving a certain Captain Broke of His Britannic Majesty's Ship SHANNON and a certain USS Chesapeake in 1813?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrokeofShannon View Post
    Whilst I would agree that the Glorious First of June is perhaps the most important maritime event during the Revolutionary/Napoleonic Wars on 1st June, can I be as bold to mention a minor skirmish in a secondary theatre involving a certain Captain Broke of His Britannic Majesty's Ship SHANNON and a certain USS Chesapeake in 1813?
    Yes, you can be so bold. An illustrious member has as well: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...USS+Chesapeake

    Welcome aboard from across the pond, Stuart.

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    Cheasapeake vs. Shannon...well as we say down here, even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then.
    Last edited by Coog; 11-29-2013 at 01:28.

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    Well Bobby keep supplying the acorns me hearty. They will undoubtedly grow someone an Oak tree one day.
    Bligh.

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