Sounds like most of my Re-enactment life Chris, although sometimes you can substitue Hail or rain for the snow.
Bligh.
Sounds like most of my Re-enactment life Chris, although sometimes you can substitue Hail or rain for the snow.
Bligh.
Last edited by Bligh; 04-13-2013 at 10:59.
As with a lot of war games scale can be an issue. If the fort is more for terrain than it would take up too much table space in most games.Originally Posted by RichardPF
A model of the fort 2 feet in length would be awesome, but in the game's ground scale would be about 1.5 to 2 miles long :)
I can see it go either way, but it depends on what kind of scenarios you are most likely to run. If you plan to run scenarios in which the ships will have direct interaction (e.g. attacking the fort), then I think you should go with building just a portion of the fort to preserve the proper scale (maybe 1/2 the fort, such that the model is 12 inches?). If the scenarios you are more likely to run will not have players interacting with it directly, then you can go with a scaled down version to give it the most visual impact. My two cents, at least...
It may just be my maths but at 1:1000 I make the whole fort 1.1 feet long. Even so for Ships at sea we only really need the facade facing the sea and a bit of the parade ground to simulate the target unless we are running Bomb Ketches.
Bligh.
Here's how I measured:
I took a screen shot of the Google Satellite map and imported it to a graphics package.
The red rectangle I created above the key was 120 pixels long.
The one I created along the long axis of the fort was 500 pixels long.
That made the fort a bit over 4 times the key.
And the key was 500 feet.
Last edited by RichardPF; 04-14-2013 at 06:49.
http://maps.nls.uk/military/view/?id=407
Gives a nice old map of the fort, about 2000 feet is roughly correct for the length. If you are using Google to look at it, zoom out to 2000 ft, you can see Chanonry point which shows how well placed the fort is.
This is my favorite plan, it shows how far the dastardly English would displace thousands (okay, 1 family to be honest!) to place their fort. The RED oblong in the location of a Fisherman's house.
I think modern day property developers are just as ruthless
No doubt the canny Scot sold his house for a considerable profit :)
A little about the locals...
Aredersier
Many families in the village once depended on the sea to earn a living. The Reverend John Mathieson, a Victorian minister, wrote a history of the parish that included some interesting observations about the fishers…
….a class of people who possess many habits and many superstitious observations quite peculiar to themselves. They never intermarry out of their own tribes, and there is an obvious reason for this on the part of the young men, as no other females would undertake the laborious out-of-door occupations to which their wives are subjected. They carry in creels on their back to great distances immense loads of fish: and they carry their husbands to and from their boats, when from the state of the tide, they cannot get in or out dry-shod. This latter duty influences the fashion of the costume of the females, which, as regards their lower garment, is of peculiar brevity. The women make the nets and bait the lines, and the fishermen when not employed on the vastly deep, do little else than chew tobacco.
Has much changed since then?
Well Tobacco is more socially frowned upon these days....
Ask Clipper on WoG. He is making scaled Zeps at 1/144 scale, and has just done an aircraft carrier. I think it would ultimately depend upon price and shipping costs from a sales perspective. As you know, quantity demanded is based on price. I doubt 2' would deter folks in terms of taking such forts to conventions, etc., unless weight became an issue.
As for whether it is best to do a whole fort or partial, it depends upon how much folks want shore scenarios to turn into land-based gaming. I would love whole forts from an aesthetical and collector's perspective. I imagine for many, though, it would be overkill.
First test model of Castillo Santa Catalina just off the 3D printer.
Report with pictures to follow this evening.
Good and bad news; none of it too bad.
While it was printing,
I was rereading Hornblower and the Hotspur and in particular the long distance battle with Felicity and the mention of the fort at Cape St. Vincent in Portugal.
OK it's Portugal, but still...
Size looks pretty good for the scale of the game.
As some of my friends are Scots, I could not possibly comment. besides which they all have Basket hilt swords, and Dirks.Has much changed since then?
Bligh.
So, basically no then.
I think I saw the photo with about a dozen of the Zeppelins filling what looked to be his dining room table.
That post didn't say what he was doing with them.
IIRC they were basically hand made out of blocks of dense foam with added details.
I think that I remember a picture of a jig that he was using to build them.
My guess was that he used a hot wire technique with the jig to cut the basic shape.
I shouild probably know a lot more about it than I do.
I know that Skytrex (now Red Eagle) sells something similar in kit form that is about 3 1/2 feet long and goes for something in the neighhborhood of $300.
That does hint at the whole discussion of size and cost that will be part of my update on the fort model this evening.
A couple of directions that this could go.
By Neptunes beard! I do believe I've been Gulled.So, basically no then.
Bligh.
Many of those Zeps were in a smaller scale. The 1/144 is significantly larger - and I have one coming.
I think once you give details as to price and size, you'll get a better idea what folks truly demand as opposed to want. One thing about smaller items is their versatility in terms of placement/position on a table.
And weight, which will impact shipping costs.
At the moment I'm thinking "2 ft isn't that big, not really, dag nab it I'll have 2""
even though I'm pretty much stoney broke (bought my first ever New car last month, and New New NOT just new to me, 6 miles on the clock when I got it) so I can't afford anything.....
Castillo Santa Catalina Prepares to merge from the Virtual!
So now that the KS buzz has subsided a bit I figured it was time to post the next installment or two of this saga.
Here is the fort modeled to the level of detail I deemed reasonable for the first 3D print test.
But before it goes to print, there are a couple of things that need to be checked...
3D objects for film, TV and video games have a lot less picky requirements than one that will be 3D printed.
An object destined for printing needs to have a manifold surface.
There are all kinds of fancy math definitions to this, but basically it means something that could exist in the world of 3D objects that have physical volume.
Above is an example of an object that DOES NOT have a manifold surface.
Here is that same example object after it has been edited to have a manifold surface.
This could now actually exist in the real world.
Why you might want this particular object to exist is a completely different deal...
Once you are sure the geometry defines an object that can exist in the real world,
the last step that you want to do before sending it off to the printing software is divide all of the polygons up to be triangles. This process is known as tessellation.
The main reason for this is that a polygon that is defined by more than three vertices may not have all vertices along a single plane (i.e. not create a flat polygon).
This can lead to ambiguities when the printer software builds the file for printing.
In the image above, all polygons are three sided.
The model is then exported from the modeling software and imported to the printer software.
There was an intermediate step where I translated the file format between the previous two steps but there was really nothing to see there.
The file format coming out of this modeling software is .fbx the file format required for import to the printer software is .stl.
There are many software utilities that can do this format translation.
In the printer software, the scale is verified and the print style and options are selected.
The build file for the printer is then created and saved.
The system calculates how much time the build will take.
I can't wait to see the results
Castillo Santa Catalina Model Enters the Material World
Here it finally is.
The first test of an original object to see where we are in the process.
I purchased three more spools of filament that I thought might be more appropriate for this type of modeling.
Silver grey, Tan, and Green.
This was also a non-neon green so I was interested to see if it would have the same problems as the neon green did.
The standard rook model built without problem using this new shade of green.
Here you can see the difference in shade between the two materials.
I decided to do the first fort test using the silver grey.
This filament has a bit of metallic to it.
Not necessarily good for simulating block and stone but it does make the filament tend to show imperfections more clearly.
First "lap" around the perimeter base completed...
Base/foundation complete and the honeycomb structure of the Strong building style starts to take shape.
This structure is the best to prevent warping, but has an issue reproducing elevated flat surfaces of which the model does have a few.
Slanted fort walls and entry bridge with rail details now visible.
Internal structure starting to be defined.
Internal structure becoming visible.
The print is actually nearly done at this point.
Finished print with a couple of WINGS planes for scale/contrast.
So the first test print is done.
Did it work?
Sort of.
The object successfully built, but issues with the flat surfaces and detail need to be addressed if possible.
NEXT STEPS:
I am reworking the model to try to address/hide those areas where the shortcomings of the medium or the granularity of the printer scale were apparent.
I have also created accounts at both Sculpteo and Shapeways and will send the model to one or both once my next round of modeling is completed.
It is still questionable whether the model can be refined enough to produce for distribution using this quality 3D Printer using this material.
If it can, the models would be quite inexpensive to create.
The higher end equipment of the commercial printing services will likely yield more detail and less flat surface issues,
but will likely have cost issues if used for manufacture.
Either model might also be used as a start of a sculpt that could then be refined and used as a mold positive for creation of urethane molds to build these objects in resin or pewter.
This process will continue...
Looks good. I wouldn't have a problem using it as it is.
I would be happy using it. Great work Bruce.
I'm with Eric & Bobby on this, this model looks terrific and for a first print quite remarkable.
I agree I would use it myself. Possibly rework it a bit for resin casting.
Ditto what the last guys said. :)
Thank you for describing the process Bruce.
I found it enthralling.
I would also be happy to own one of those models. It also made me think about the use of such objects in WOG as targets.
Bligh.
Brilliant thread, nice product as well, looks really good.
Very impressive, both the process story and the end result.
As for production - I understood there are now bureaus that accept designs for 3D printing.
Excellent thread with impressive results. The fort is outstanding for a first printing.
Yes, and this avenue is being explored on a parallel path.
Check the NEXT STEPS section at the bottom of my pictoral post (#73) above.
A great piece of work Bruce. You'll have to let us know your account names on Shapeways & Sculpteo so we can view and maybe order if teh design passes their test conditions.
Great work Bruce,
How long did it take to make?
Be safe
Rory
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