Further goals announced scenario book looks interesting! Oh and achievable.
Further goals announced scenario book looks interesting! Oh and achievable.
I like the look of the bags but I'm really interested in the Scenario book. It would be really nice to have some official baseline scenarios for events and also as a guide for developing our own.
Now those stretch goals are really interesting. Clever of Ares not to bow to pressure and promise stuff they couldn't deliver in time and had no idea of the costs on. A sensible approach in my opinion.
It will be interesting to see if these goals give the existing backers, or those still on the fence, the push the project needs to reach them.
From a purely personal perspective only the prospect of additional counters excites me (smoke markers are not a problem for me and I have scenarios coming out of my ears thanks to copies of the Naval chronicle and a well-stocked library of factual and historical fiction). However, I recognise I'm in the minority - the smoke markers should make a great visual aide memoire and I think the scenarios book in particular will be of immense benefit to a great many players. Whilst it would have been nice to see another ship or two the practicalities of life and production meant that was never a realistic prospect.
Keith,
Are these bags coming from you?
Bruce, Ares is looking at bags from me and from a Chinese manufacture as a back up cost concerns. That mock up did not come from me... in fact, they have never given me the logo or any artwork they might want on it. So, in the end, I'm not sure if the bags will be made by me or not.
Keith, if you make bags and sell them through AA, I'll buy them over some made in China and believe others also would. I'm sure the quality would be far superior and worth the price even if they cost a little more.
I am 100% behind buying American when possible. Keith you and your family have my vote.Originally Posted by Coog
If Ares offers these bags for sale after the KS, would that preclude you (contractually or er, politically) from offering some nicer ones?
Thanks for the show of support guys. I know the bags I might offer will cost more... but that's because each would be hand made by someone that we actually know by their first name. lol In fact, if we end up doing the KS bags (which I don't believe we will), the bags will most likely be sewn up by a group of Amish ladies that work for my parents when the volume is high enough. You'd be hard pressed to get more "back in the Age of Sails" then that!
My current plans are to still offer some type of bags even if Ares does the KS bags via China and/or offers them as a regular product after the KS. Either way, I'd have to produce a higher standard of bag to make it worth while... so most likely leather bags for the discerning player. If Ares does the bags, I would not be able to offer mine as official accessories and as such, they could not bare the Sails of Glory name or logo. That could effect desirability enough to make them not worth while doing except on a custom order bases.
I would like to point out that if Ares does the bags, I in no way take that in ill effect. It's a business decision and if all the goals are met, we are talking about 3,355 bags... before any add on bags are purchased by backers. So, saving even a little per bag adds up quickly.
I don't know how the letters for all the damage chits works yet, but I would actually prefer a mix of bags and rigid wall containers. For the common things like A & B, I'd want bowls or something like that. Easy effective and quick. When players start pulling crazy crap like grape shot, it would make the moment more special to pull out a cool looking bag to differentiate the awesomeness that they just rake grape-shotted somebody.
I echo David's comment about scenarios. Given the wealth of fiction and historical engagements at our disposal, the creativity of members here, and the ease with which we can produce pdfs, it is not too exciting of a stretch goal for me. Personally, additional tangible game aids are more attractive.
Given the relatively free cost of creating pdfs, I think Ares would have done well to have simply provided the scenario book as a thank you.
Based on other conversations on this site over the past day or so, I think enhanced ship mats that would help secure the chits and facilitate play based on maneuver card placement, etc. would be a welcome accessory.
I agree with Eric about the PDF scenarios and it being more of a thank you for the support. I would rather have something like an exclusive mat printed for KS backers only, unique from mats that will be for sale at a later date. Printing something on vinyl on short notice is pretty damn easy. This way everyone will be happy.
Says the chap buying an Italian game, made in China, about British and French ships :)
<ducks!!!>
Well, if you wanted a cheap (compared to the official mouse pad style mats), that would be an easy goal. I however would not value that as it would not fit in with the other mats at all.
Man, talk about no warning shot across the bow!! Thanks for the laugh this morning David. Now,
The "advanced" ship mats have been dropped from the possible stretch goals do to pricing. I was always skeptical anyways due to their size and the amount of engraving that has to go into them. I will still be doing them as part of my accessory line still however.
I understand the sentiments on the PDF scenarios and agree it could have made a great 'thankyou', but consider also Ares side of things. They are down to the last week or so, have a lot of production demands already in the pipe and are probably still surprised they burned through their major goal plans as early as they did. I have to imagine it's hard to come up with things at this point that are interesting, achievable and affordable. If something costs too much then it will defeat some of the value of the KS. If something is not interesting then it won't add to the momentum. If something is not achievable it will leave a destructive taste in the mouths of the consumers.
Not trying to let them off the hook here. I love scenario making myself and am mostly interested in the scenario book as an initial guideline and reference. My experience though is that the general population likes to consume scenarios more than produce them though (history/game lovers here probably don't fall much into that category though). It would be great if they just offered it out to all as a thank you, but if they are needing a little something sweet right now this may be the best they can do at this point.
Well scenario books are very popular. Witness the ASL (advanced squad leader) system than has hundreds and hundreds of them and people still buy more. ASL is a system that models tactical battles in WW2, pick up any book on any campaign and you could develop a working scenarios with minimal work and time but the majority of owners never do this, they prefer ready made off the shelf.
Remember, those of us on SOG at present, particularly those who have been here for over a year waiting, probably do not represent the "typical" KS investor to SOG. Of the 900+ uptakers a fair proportion of them have knowledge of the Age of Sail limited to movie and TV and perhaps a little reading and a lot of pirates. Their expectation and enjoyment of the system is really what the marketing needs to be aimed at, thus scenario books etc, they are the ones who will make or break the game as they will always be the largest group of owners. The aficionados like me and many of you, who love naval history and this period in particular, will always be in the minority but can still bring many of the others along on the ride with us and introduce them to this wonderful period.
The Anchorage provides an entry to the history of the Age of Sail as much as SOG does to wargaming it. I think we need to be mindful we probably aren't typical!
I'm with many of you, the stretch goals of smoke and bags doesn't entice me but I can see how it would others and if it does indeed entice, then we will all benefit in the long run.
Excuse me now while I climb down from my high horse....
I had thought of that as I wrote those words but at this time there is no game maker in the US putting together such games that I know of. With that said my nationalistic views comes from a working class background where I have seen family and friends lose a great deal they had gained solely for profit so others could gain. I try to support locals when I can.
In answer to the comment Keith followed up with, I wasn't thinking cheap just a product that doesn't involve much past the artist or designers rendition. A file on a computer, a few clicks of the mouse and the the presses are rolling. Quality need not fall by the wayside.
And finally to Lawrence I understand the crew at Ares are going 100 miles per hour with their hair on fire at this time. I mean what a rush for the 700 times their original stated goal outpouring. I could easily imagine them being just slightly overwhelmed with this huge support they have gotten. Also, I am very satisfied to date with all the goodies they have provided. I did not mean to sound greedy or anything. I just happened to agree with a statement that sounded correct to me.
Last edited by Cmmdre; 04-09-2013 at 08:06. Reason: grammar
I am glad to know this. As much as I like the Aerodrome's version, I think for SoG, given the chits and amount of info on the card, enhanced ship mats are more than aesthetic upgrades; they could provide an answer to a potential problem. I look forward to seeing what you will design.
Lawrence and Daniel, I think you raise valid points. I think Ares missed a great marketing opportunity, however.. They could have posted scenarios on their website, and by doing so, showed that SoG is a game that comes with a lot of support. Ares could have run a contest for scenario generation and had members of the Anchorage - I acknowledge the comment about us being outliers - do the scenario generation.
I agree with you Daniel that this site is not typical. I have looked for something like this for a long time and am very happy I have arrived. Understandably there are plenty of people who would like the scenario booklet, myself included. I just happened to agree with 7eats51 Eric that it would be a nice way to way to thank the hundreds of supporters that have rallied around their great idea.Well scenario books are very popular. Witness the ASL (advanced squad leader) system than has hundreds and hundreds of them and people still buy more. ASL is a system that models tactical battles in WW2, pick up any book on any campaign and you could develop a working scenarios with minimal work and time but the majority of owners never do this, they prefer ready made off the shelf.
Remember, those of us on SOG at present, particularly those who have been here for over a year waiting, probably do not represent the "typical" KS investor to SOG. Of the 900+ uptakers a fair proportion of them have knowledge of the Age of Sail limited to movie and TV and perhaps a little reading and a lot of pirates. Their expectation and enjoyment of the system is really what the marketing needs to be aimed at, thus scenario books etc, they are the ones who will make or break the game as they will always be the largest group of owners. The aficionados like me and many of you, who love naval history and this period in particular, will always be in the minority but can still bring many of the others along on the ride with us and introduce them to this wonderful period.
The Anchorage provides an entry to the history of the Age of Sail as much as SOG does to wargaming it. I think we need to be mindful we probably aren't typical!
I'm with many of you, the stretch goals of smoke and bags doesn't entice me but I can see how it would others and if it does indeed entice, then we will all benefit in the long run.
Excuse me now while I climb down from my high horse....
That is a good idea for Ares to run a contest for scenarios.
Is it August yet?
I too wish a free scenario PDF 'thank you' was out there. There's not much to it. And maybe a printed version with basic soft-bound cover could have been the stretch goal?
While the identification of the missed marketing opportunity of not publishing some scenarios during the KS might be a 20/20 hindsight thing, I'm wondering if there might be another reason.
Reading between the lines of some of the KS Updates, I would wonder if Ares is even now still finalizing some of the rules.
From the scenarios in Wings, I would think that these would all need to be in place for a SGN scenario document to be published.
I think you are correct about solidifying rules. As for the timing of scenario release, I was thinking of post KS, i.e. at the time of the game's release. As for our contributing, that would be post release once we have the game in-hand.
Don't rule out some free scenarios later on. Under Nexus, there were some free add-ons released for Wings on their website. Most of the Nexus people created Ares, so that line of thinking could still be there.
And as a thank you from Ares, there is something in the works for you Anchorage members. It's not a physical item that you will receive, but a way to directly effect a future product. It's going to be a chance for your voice to be herd and acted upon. We should be releasing more info here very soon!
Name an upcoming ship after each of us?
Humm, the HMS Royal Hajj .... now I like the sound of that!
Not one for me, I fear -- I don't think they'd be able to sell a ship named "HMS _A**hole_".... ;)
I thought various navies did name ships after political figures?
For some reason, I do like the sound of a heavy frigate flying the Republic of Texas flag sharing a name with the serpent I was dubbed after... LOL
Perhaps one of the contest I will run will be painting up your namesake ship!
LOL or perhaps the winner gets to select a reasonable name instead :)
I think USS A**hole has a better ring to it.
Touch'e.
Back to the subject at hand...
Will we get to see the smoke markers in the next few days? I have to now how much to up my pledge by Friday.
The laser shop has corrected the issue and a new set was mailed out priority mail to me this morning. Hopefully I 'll have them by Friday to photograph and upload for everyone.
Excellent news, Keith.
So...uh...any news on this?
Finally, some photos to show!
These show the engraved details colored in with a black crayon (the preferred method). They will ship to everyone with out the coloring so that you can do with them as you like. For those of you have seen my painted flame and smoke markers for Wings, you know that those of you that are inclined to can easily paint these up to look even better.
Those are very nice thank yous from Ares. It will be fun laying them out on my table.
Cool. I'll probably use cotton smoke myself but these markers will be excellent for travelling with the game as well as sharing.
For those that want to use cotton, these will also make great bases for that. Very sturdy and weighted so they don't get knocked around.
I'm interested in seeing how others have created or will create different visuals such as smoke, fire, etc. I think I will use these as bases for cotton or some such substance because I would like something taller given the height of the ship base and the distance from the edge of the base to the guns.
One thing to keep in mind about adding height to your smoke... just because you have fired and have a smoke cloud out there, does not mean another ship will not be shooting at you. If your smoke is too tall, it could interfere with checking range with the Combat Ruler.
Good point.
When I look at the picture, however, it looks like the ship is flying among clouds as opposed to smoke from the ship's firing. This is why I like your suggestion of using these counters as bases. It will be nice once the game is in-hand to workout such details.
I was visualizing these as being something on a stand with a slight elevation, so my my initial reaction was "that's it?". But...it grew on me really fast, then I saw it next to the ship and it looks pretty cool. It really does need the black lines. By crayon, do you mean the wax type, or did you use something else?
I'm definitely getting an extra pair of these along with the (4) I get at Lt level. I might get more later, but this will be a good start.
Yep, the wax type for kids.
Cool, I'm allowed those kindBy crayon, do you mean the wax type
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