Keith, the idea of the laser is great, especially for making trays to order.
I look forward to the other creations you mentioned, e.g. forts.
Keith, the idea of the laser is great, especially for making trays to order.
I look forward to the other creations you mentioned, e.g. forts.
Yes, being able to produce a single tray to match a customers collection again will be really nice. Of course, it will take me a little while to get up to speed on manufacturing these myself.
Keith, just noticed this thread now. Based on my experience with the demo kit which we discussed in email, I'd recommend option 3 in the OP.
Eric, what do you think based upon the way I packaged them with extra foam?
Update
Hi Guys,
Have 17 ships that desperately need a good storage/travel solution. any updates on a Foam case? Any other suggestions?
Thanks, Jeff
No word on anything official yet.Originally Posted by jnewell68
I ordered some pluck foam for the interim. Not sure it'll work well yet or not though as I've yet to even be notified on My UPS that my ships have even sailed and I'm in the 4-5 day delivery window after that.
Curtis, what size pluck foam did you order for the ships, 3"?No word on anything official yet.
I ordered some pluck foam for the interim. Not sure it'll work well yet or not though as I've yet to even be notified on My UPS that my ships have even sailed and I'm in the 4-5 day delivery window after that.
Affirmative. Two 3" trays. Which is part of why I'm not sure how they'll work. In my haste to get the demo kit ships off to the next venue, I totally forgot to measure the biggest ships. I think height-wise theyll be fine, but the 3" trays I got have 1" pluck pieces, which might be too thick if they're more than 1" thick, as I'm sure they aren't close to 3" thick. I'm hoping the sails are just under 2" wide. That'd be perfect. I plan on storing the bases on their sides or in another tray entirely. It'll depend on how the pluck foam shapes out and what's left over.
My other issue is my lovely wife got me a ton of Dust models for Christmas and holding out for my SoG ships to use the foam for is driving me nuts.
Curtis, the BLU Pluck and Sabol foam trays have 1/2" plucks.
Yes they do, and I've been very happy with the BLU stuff I've used in the past. However, my FLGS only carries Battlefoam now, and I actually ordered mine during their 25% off Black Friday sale. Plus, I got the limited edition blue 720 bag. I thought a blue bag for my sailing vessels highly appropriate. While I can fit two BLU trays in the 720 turned sideways, it's not a perfect fit - almost too snug front-to-back, 1-inch left over space side-to-side. It's what I'll do if the BF foam is not going to fit right.
For others who haven't invested yet in a bag, I'd highly recommend one that fits the BLU foam, as it's much softer and more flexible than the others, and will probably be better for the sails of our little fleets. The bases are firm though, so there is very little twist in the trays when models are in them. Definitely my favorite foam, just not my favorite bags. BF bags, while pricey, are very, very stout.
any links or pics for all this stuff?
Its like a foreign language to this long time boardgamer but new mini guy.
:-)
The BLU foam is nice... but nothing compared to the new foam I will be using
If I ever get my rank back, I'll order some.The BLU foam is nice... but nothing compared to the new foam I will be using
Which is...?The BLU foam is nice... but nothing compared to the new foam I will be using
Official foam coming out? K/R Multicase and Ares continuing the love? I'd buy it if they do! I use K/R for my Dropzone Commander stuff and love it!
@ jnewell68...
Battlefoam - http://us.battlefoam.com/
K/R Multicase - http://www.krmulticase.com/
Portable Warfare (Blü Foam) - http://www.portablewarfare.com/products/
Sabol Designs - http://www.saboldesigns.net/home.html
Welcome to the miniatures gaming addiction!
After you've plucked the foam for whatever your custom desired shape is...do you guys reinforce the remaining foam "ribs" that are left with something so it's pluck nature doesn't come back to haunt you by eventually coming apart through continued hands pulling stuff out, bumping, and such?
If the figures are heavy, I use a thin line of elmers glue on the bottom of the unglued ribs.
I'm copying this from my post on the Aerodrome site, so it talks about planes instead of ships. The foam type and details still apply though...
I've spent a lot of time searching for and researching different foam types to use. I've narrowed it down to two main types of foams. These foams are not being used by any of the other miniatures storage companies. These are a higher quality and denser types of foam and will allow for some very unique and useful options to the trays.
My old style foam (and the foam used by "the other guys") looks like this:
As you can see, with just a little pressure you can easily compress the foam. This type of foam gives good protection to your minis from bouncing around in the cutouts, but offers little protection to the top layers of minis if something, or someone, should fall on top of them.
One of the new types of foam I'm testing is shown below. As you will see in this photo, the same pressure applied to it hardly makes a dent in the foam at all.
This new type of foam has a much smaller "bubble structure" and gives it great strength. These new style trays should not bend when you load them full of planes and pick them up from one end. It also has a much smoother surface, so some of the pointy bits of your minis will be a lot less likely to get stuck in the foam. The other type (see the next 4 photos below) I'm testing has a larger bubble structure, but is chemically completely different. It has a very nice looking textured surface and will offer great protection in every direction. With both of these new foam types, I'll be able to offer some visual combinations...
Entente and Allied trays:
Central Powers and Axis trays:
Having different colors for the base layer will allow us to quickly identify which side's planes are in which trays. Just open up your bag and you can instantly see which trays hold your German planes for example.
The base layer is also of a even more dense foam, again adding to the protection and durability of the trays.
With any of the new foam types I"m looking at, there is another benefit that I'm excited to tell you guys about. And that is that not only can the cavities be cut out with the laser, but I can actually engrave on them too!
That photo does not really do it justice, but the word Plane is engraved right into the foam. It is a very clean engraving and would allow me the option to engrave the name of the plane next to each cavity, or even which types of planes are in that tray. With that last option, you could open your bag and the sides of the trays would tell you which planes were in each one! I can only do this on the long side of the trays as the laser I'm getting is not deep enough to engrave on the short end of the trays (they are 13 inches long that way).
Doing all of this in house will also allow me to offer custom layouts for those of you that collect your ships in numbers other than one of each Wave.
Silly Question: Why not have both types -- the latter forming the "top" and "bottom" where added protection is needed; the former in the middle where squishiness is preferred?I've spent a lot of time searching for and researching different foam types to use. I've narrowed it down to two main types of foams. These foams are not being used by any of the other miniatures storage companies. These are a higher quality and denser types of foam and will allow for some very unique and useful options to the trays.
My old style foam (and the foam used by "the other guys") looks like this:
As you can see, with just a little pressure you can easily compress the foam. This type of foam gives good protection to your minis from bouncing around in the cutouts, but offers little protection to the top layers of minis if something, or someone, should fall on top of them.
One of the new types of foam I'm testing is shown below. As you will see in this photo, the same pressure applied to it hardly makes a dent in the foam at all.
This new type of foam has a much smaller "bubble structure" and gives it great strength. These new style trays should not bend when you load them full of planes and pick them up from one end. It also has a much smoother surface, so some of the pointy bits of your minis will be a lot less likely to get stuck in the foam. The other type (see the next 4 photos below) I'm testing has a larger bubble structure, but is chemically completely different. It has a very nice looking textured surface and will offer great protection in every direction. With both of these new foam types, I'll be able to offer some visual combinations...
Material and labor costs, not to mention it would be thicker and take up more room in the bag. That and we really don't want squishiness anyways. So long as the foam is soft enough not to damage the minis when they brush against it, the denser the better really.
Keith, have you tried a test for vertical and horizontal ships?
I'm waiting for my ships to arrive to see if they are strong enough to be stored on its side (my preference) without damage to added rigging.
I have a piece of that last foam you're showing in my garage. That is some amazing stuff. Eeeh, I threw one piece away because the wife was wanting to clear garage space. I saved the other to cut up for some Flames of War terrain. That is some durable tough foam. It has a soft surface. It will compress a little bit easily, but will not compress a large amount easily.
Battlefoam's newer foam, especially the precut stuff, appears to be exactly like that.
However, their newer pluck stuff is about half way between the two you show.
So, Keith, I've been a bit busy of late (the days leading up to the holidays are very busy for our Marshal's office - lots of people make poor choices) and probably missed your plans going forward here...
Will you be offering precut foam trays for sale? Would you be able to do different sizes than the standard Sabol size? If so, I'd love to email you my request.
Are there supposed to be pictures of foam in Keith's post because I cant see them...
Yes, pictures four posts above yours. I see them all just fine.
I really like what you're working on, Keith.
I think vertical is going to be the best bet for rigged ships. Storing them on their sides with out the bases attached has them flopping around quite a bit. Storing them on their side with the base attached puts a little to much pressure on the mast than I am comfortable with. Your mileage may very of course.
When did they switch to new foam. The latest I've seen is still the standard foam. I also did not see anything on their site showing this same kind of foam (but I did not dig really deep either).
I think Keith is spot on with this.
I'll take it a step further and recommend storing the bases separately, or make sure your foam is the exact height of the masts of the ships on their bases, as I've seen what happens when the base gets jostled off. It isn't pretty.
But leave a little room for those who will add flags. (Do you have a headache yet)?
A few months back. Maybe several actually. It started with their Privateer Press line and their Flames of War stuff. I've got older, much softer foam with my initial bgs of both of those. The newer foam is much stouter. They've also started reinforcing their bag handles, as some of the Privateer Press models are serious hunks of metal, and there were some accidents. It may not be quite as hard as what you've got there, but it sure appears similar from the photos you've shared.
Forgot to add...
You still haven't answered my questions, which of course depending on the answers could make all of this a moot point.
I'd really like to know if you are making custom foam for sale, as my FLGS is making another order in a week or so. I'm hoping I'll have my ships before then and an answer from you, so know if I need to order something different from him or from you.
Last edited by Cool Breeze; 12-27-2013 at 09:01. Reason: Added stuff, then edited stuff for grammar
Interesting, I'll have to see about getting one of those new trays to check it out.
It depends on what you mean by custom. I will be able to cut any shape/size of cavity for the mini to fit into, but I'm limited to 12x24 inches for the overall tray size. Anything with an overall tray size larger than 7.5x13 inches (Sabol , Army Transport, BLU Foam, etc.) will require a "special custom order". lol I'm having blanks make for my trays that are already cut to size and I just laser the cavities and assemble them.
Keith, are you going to call the "Port packs or Port trays"?
BTW Keith, when will you start taking preorders for the trays?
+1 to this, but I'll be leaning towards the, "special custom" option as I'll want 15.5" x 12" trays. Because this...
Battlefoam P.A.C.K. 720 - Blue
is too pretty not to use.
Yes, BF does make some nice bags, too bad they over price them though.+1 to this, but I'll be leaning towards the, "special custom" option as I'll want 15.5" x 12" trays. Because this...
Battlefoam P.A.C.K. 720 - Blue
is too pretty not to use.
That's what Black Friday 25% off is for.
Short answer, about the 2nd week of Jan.
Long answer...
I picked up my laser last Friday and with all the holiday activities, I've had very little time to play with it. On top of that, the exhaust system I built has some leaks I'm sorting out. Turns out, melted acrylic is kind of stinky! lol The wife is not to happy about that
Hopefully that will be sorted out with my efforts yesterday. If that is the case, I'll start dialing in the settings for my various materials over the next week. The final foam/PSA samples are due to me on the 30th. That puts me cutting prototypes no earlier than about the 2nd. As long as those go good, I'll put them up for pre-order around the weekend of the 4th. There is about a month lead time to get the blanks in and then it's just a matter of cutting and assembling the trays. I think I can cut about 25 trays an hour, but no clue yet how long the PSA will have to "situp" to make a good bond. I'll also get the already pre-ordered Wings of Glory trays out first. Best case I think I might be shipping these trays in March.
Keith I volunteer to test the new packing and box. :)
+1
Me too :( I'd love to produce my own bags, but the startup funds need are really high.
Kickstarter feasible?
True, if you don't think about that is what their normal price should be and that you would have gotten 25% off that price. lol
I'm partial to open top & open front bags as well. Very easy to get the trays.
I miss Keith's bags. Wish I had got a couple more.
That'd be a really cool family project!
My initial thought for storing the cards was to keep them in the same cavity, but under the ship and base. But I'll have to double check the height of all of that combined to see if it is going to be too tall for the 3 inch foam. The other thing I forgot to account for since I did not have an actual production ship pack is the ship log that comes with them. I'll have to come up with a good way to store those as well.
I was leaning towards using a 1/2" or 1" pluck foam tray above each ship to store its cards, ship log, and base.
I was figuring a 1-2" pluck tray for the ship mats and misc. tokens, damage chits, terrain pieces, etc.
Might be worth seeing what custom trays can be made to hold the misc. stuff while you're at it.
Both K/R and BF did such trays for X-Wing. I quickly outgrew the BF one when the second wave of ships came out. Might lend an eye to growth.
That's impressive - very sturdy, very protective.
Yeah, that's better stuff than the new BF foam. It is definitely different in texture with that lighting. Not the same like I thought from the other photos.
On the Wings side of things, I've always had a tray for the game bits. I'll continue this for Sails as best I can.
To quote my youngest daughter...
Yay me!
.....just hurry up and take my money already!
It looks like you're on the right track Keith.
For my Axis and Allies ships I just have baseball card boxes for the cards, and Plano boxes for the ships. Upon opening the first SoG ship it became clear that something like that was not an option, and that I really needed to put each ship right back in the original box in the original configuration after looking at it or examining the stats, or things would quickly become completely unmanageable.
On the other hand, my next thought was--actually the original box makes a pretty nice storage container.
So... how will the foam storage solutions compare to just using the original packaging? Is the custom storage solution... safer? more compact? quicker to access? has other qualities I'm not thinking of?
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