Make them good ones then ! :D
Make them good ones then ! :D
Do we know anything about the mats? If they're open-ocean and not "specific coastline" I might pledge for a second once we hit 100K. (The Beancounters give me one $400 "no questions asked" project per year, so I've declared SGN to be it in lieu of the usual now-dead Axis & Allies War at Sea quad-case.)
The only thing I've heard about the mats is that they are the same size as the Wings ones. Some of the photos they have shown do show artwork in the same style as the Wings mats, so that might give us an indication of what these will look like.
I imagine that these mats could be used with Wings as well, at least open seas ones given no scale differences to contend with.Originally Posted by The Royal Hajj
Are you able to find out if there will be different mats like Wings, and if so, which one(s) will be offered as the stretch goal reward?
I'll see if I can find anything out.
The voice of heresy here from Gloucestershire on the subject of mats. I can see why people are getting excited at the idea of mats with coastlines that may or may not mate with the Wings of Glory ones. But I'd suggest open ocean mats are the way to go and them arrange a tie in with a manufacturer of 3D terrain pieces for coastline pieces. Fixed terrain on a mat becomes very "samey", whereas terrain pieces give you almost infinite variability. Also (and possibly more important) they are FAR more attractive with the models. In the past I have used card templates for land and islands - they look OK, bit not wonderful, but get some nice carved expanded polystyrene coastline, cliffs and islands and it all looks a million times better.
That doesn't sound heretical to be honest. The visual appeal of the game is enhance when any scenery is in 3D like the models.
That's good news about the size, the only pictures I have seen looked like the Wings of War Coast Mat.
I agree with DM that a Sea mat with add on shoal, island or coast elements would give infinitely more variety to games.
Anybody wanna place bets about when we'll hit next Stretch Goal? At the current rate of pledges, if it holds it looks like we might get a new stretch met every day or day-and-a-half to two days... though I think almost everything so far has been the massive head of steam from us longtime watchers with itchy trigger-fingers and some of us are starting to tap out. (Once the total for addons plus pledge goes above $400, I plan to make a case to my relatives to overrule the accountants even if it means having to take out a loan...)
The other possible option with the mats is to go the WSIM and Ironclads way where various colours are used to designate shoals, coastlines, rivers etc and the scenario instructions will dictate which coloured boundaries are in use for each game.
The days to go counter seems to click over about the same time of day as the Kickstarter lists as the end time. In Arizona, that is 2 PM (Arizona is on Mountain Time and does not do daylight savings time). The project actually went live here about 1AM on the 5th. Using that as the clickover time, the project looks to have gotten a bit over $57,000 the first day and about $15,000 each of the next two days. Counting days this way the third day total was about the same as the second but the total was made with fewer new backers (no doubt some came from $20 add ons). Based on all that, my guess as to the time the project hits $100,000 is 3AM MST Saturday morning.
And by that logic next goal after that about 16 hours later, if my math's right...
If the rate holds that would be about right. It will be interesting to see if the rate drops off any over time. My guess is that it may actually pick up a bit of steam over the weekend and not taper off any until Monday. I'm sure that the Kickstarter folks have all kinds of trend charts on this stuff but probably keep it close to the vest (or think that few people are geeky enough to be interested).
It also depends upon the nature of future add-ons. After the mats, the next stretch is the attitude indicator. Even if there were 1,000 backers all kicking in $5 for it, only $5,000 would be raised. The new early bird commodore will increase ~$10,000, and if that opens the previously held ranks, another $10,000 or so. The only way I see this really moving forward is if there are a bunch of folks sitting on the fence who jump in, or if a lot more ships are offered. I am glad that Ares hit their original goal, but I wonder how high the end number will actually reach.
As much as I wish it was, this is not an exceptional campaign in terms of the KS norm. Just like all campaigns, we have a huge spike at the onset of the project that will be followed with a slump that last the majority of the rest of the campaign. Then we will get a nice peak towards the end when everyone starts picking up the extra add ons or trying to reach that next stretch goal which is pretty close.
The additional stretch goals they give us will decide how big of a slump we go into during the middle weeks. I personally would have like to see them put the Attitude Indicator as an $85k stretch goal. It would have given us a small, relativity easy goal to meet... but would have put us that much closer to the $100k goal.
We are working on things to add to the Captian level for free if future stretch goals are made. Once we hit the $100k mark and the Capt level gets the free gaming mat and if the other goals are made to give the Capt the other freebees, I expect we will see some of the lower pledged players upgrading to the Capt level as it becomes a much better deal.
Oh, and for those of you interested in the stats and trending forecast for this campaign, check out Kicktraq.
Agreed. Additionally, from a marketing perspective, choosing the captain level has better potential for buy-in concerning later releases. Folks will already have invested more, and by having more ships, will likely find switching to another line less attractive. If an individual only has a couple of ships, switching costs are far less and switching more probable. Ares should ensure it is thinking about lifetime value, and not maximizing profit on the kickstarter.
No offense, but I find the trending toward amount unlikely. If it is based on trend-line forecasting, it is fairly unreliable for a couple of reasons - few data points, lack of qualitative measure input such as marketing metrics based knowledge of marketspace, lack of reason to believe historical behavior of given event is similar to future behavior (this is especially true given early bird options), etc.
Yes, the trending toward amount is not likely to happen. They even have a whole page discussing this linked right from that chart.
Ah, I didn't see this. I think I just found it if it is the page linked from the box with the trending toward amount. Interesting phrasing, "Why you should take Kicktraq trends with a grain of salt". Thanks.
It looks like that Kicktraq trend forcast just takes the average daily total to that point and more or less multiplies it out over the length of the campaign. I would imagine that the actual trend looks something like the graph of a logarithmic function like f(t) = log (t + 1) where t is the number of days that the campaign has been going. (To see what this function looks like, you can google f(x) = log x and then just look at the portion to the right of X = 1). This is not a function with a horixontal asymptote but close to it. I would also expect that there are predictable day of the week and holiday fluctuations to that projection that could be made if someone had access to the actual day by day totals of all of the projects that have been offered on Kickstarter.
It will be interesting to see how quickly the early bird commodore spaces do fill.
It might be reasonable for Ares to offer at least a bit of volume discount to the non-early bird eligible commodores below the 2 x 260 that was mentioned, though the better shipping rate is a significant deal in itself.
If we go by US Naval officer ranks (since this is a US based campaign) might we might also see Rear Admiral (lower and upper half), Vice Admiral, Admiral, and then above Fleet Admiral, Admiral of the Navy levels?
I wonder what impact all this is having on the discussions for the second Ares Kickstarter that begins when this one ends?
Is there an active community for that game now?
OK enough questions for the moment...
Last edited by RichardPF; 03-08-2013 at 10:45.
For those who upgrade, will their previous slots open up, including the early bird slots?
I imagine the commodore level will push the pledge amount past the $100,000 mark in short order, especially given double the mats.
Yes the lower slots do open when you upgrade. But I was suprised that there was no a rush at Noon when the change was posted. I was either the first or second one to upgrade to EB Commadore. That was 90 minutes ago and we are only up to 8 at that level. The up side is we will hit 100K today and more stretch goals may get added over the weekend.
I almost commented upon the slow rate of adoption as well, but thought I might have missed something like the exact time it went live. Given the lead-time as to the commodore level with limited early bird slots, I thought they would have been taken well within an hour. It is after work for Europeans, and late enough for west coast U.S. Makes one wonder.
I'm not sure how many Europeans would take up the commodore level. Two of everything for the same shipping sounds great. Yet you're also increasing the value of the package that will be subject to customs and VAT.
From my point of view $60 shipping for a 3kg package at a value of $250 is reasonable. I've seen some shipping charges from the US be double the value of the item to be purchsaed. Add the shipping costs, $60 and I now have $310. This, I assume, is what customs will base any charges on which will include the VAT at a very reasonable 21%. Now if I went commodore level, that's now a $540 value, so my VAT and custom fees just went up too. So I'd save $60 shipping, but expect to pay and somewhere between $50-70 extra in customs fee and VAT. Unless there's something I'm missing with the whole import/custom/VAT thing.
The only thing that can make it cheaper for me, is if the exchange rate on the day I have to pay is soooooo advantageous to me that it works out at somewhere around €100. If that's the case I'll also expect to win every lottery around the world at the same time. :rolleyes:
So that's why I'm sticking with Captain and the extras. I'll pay the pledge when the project closes and then take the hit when the product ships. I think it'll be worth the wait, and the cost. Just so long as SWMBO doesn't find out. :D
I am curious about something... what is the advantage for someone in the US to jump up to Commodore level? Sure, you get another map, and another wind gauge-thing... but I've already got free shipping and won't save there. Sure, more ships would be great but, unlike WGF, these are named vessels. The bases and cards appear to identify the specific ship by name...
Apologies if I'm missing the obvious.
Thanks.
Last edited by fast.git; 03-08-2013 at 11:55. Reason: Actually asked a question.
The upgrade seems to make sense if someone would have subsequently ordered an additional set of everything at a later time; there would be some savings on shipping. I don't know how true that will be of folks. Unless I plan on doing a lot of repainting, I don't think I would like two of each ship. Some folks have already expressed their interest in such a thing, though.
Outside of an additional mat or other future stretch goals, I could not figure out why as well. Besides, I thought this was offered as a partial solution for our overseas mates, so I did not jump in. I acknowledge I might be missing something as well.
Well ship cards and ships can be modified. There is breakage and any failed experiment. Add in trading later on. More mats are needed. I use three or four mats typically for WoG but Sog could get trickier when you start adding land masses and have to sail around various points. I may also rebuld some ships into at anchor. One never knows. Finally most wargamers almost always buy more than they need or can ever paint! Admitting your problem is the first step to recovery but I don't want to recover!
Is there a chance that Ares will ever put measures in place to serve their home audience I wonder?
O'h look a flying pig.
Duck, it's a whole herd of them. :)
Three reasons:
1) It helps Ares
2) It helps the community
3) I consider it my Christmas shopping!
The Commodore level was designed to allow two players to join forces and but it together. IF two people split the cost of the goods and the VAT, there is no increased cost to each of them, just the shipping in savings.
As for US players buying the Commodore level, I would suggest that they not do so (especially the EB version). If you want what is essentially two sets of the Capt level, simply double your pledge amount and send a note saying you want two of them. This gets you exactly what you want and does not take up one of our Euro sailor's special deal slot.
Still, I wouldn't consider a half-mil final total implausible... quarter more likely, but that's still nothing to sneeze at and gives LOTS of room for new stretch goals.
Slower uptake of commodore may be to do with the price shock. $480 +shipping is a lot of gaming money to invest in a system I haven't seen in the flesh and have no reviews or rules set to go through. That's a big leap of faith and as more stretch levels get reached there may be more investments to be had like the Victory and Constitution all of which add more $ (yes I know some of the stretch levels are free bonuses). I rarely think twice about spending money on my gaming, tending to sell off items I dont need any more and buy newer items but I'm still at heart a collector and I've decided to pause till the latter stages of the capital raising to see the final offers.
For an individual, I think this is a very fair statement. If two folks go in together, as The Royal Hajj suggests, it would lower costs, assuming both would be in at the captain's level regardless.
As a newbie to WGF, if they did a kickstarter, I wouldn't sleep until it went live, and then I would buy until my wife shut down our internet; but this is because I am already a player and have seen the game, as you say, in the flesh.
$100,662 now pledged.
The mats are now covered.
And we are now getting into the area of the campaign were more of those are going to come out. The next two stretch goals, $110k and $125k, are both free bonuses... and both produced by me :D
Cool! You sizing 'em so they can just drop into the starter box in place of the originals, I hope? :)
Edit: holy crap, I got butter-bars already? LOL
The Attitude Indicator will assemble and disassemble similar to the Damage Deck Caddy... but much simpler of course. The rulers will be the same size as the originals, so they will fit with out issue as well.
Wonderful. Thanks for your work to make this a better game. It is truly appreciated.
Same goes for me. You've done a grand job of getting a community organised so that our voice can be heard by the game designers and manufacturer.
Thanks Keith for the hard work.
Cheers
Chris
You are welcome guys... it's all part of the fun. But once this site really sets sail with the actual launching of the game, I'm not sure how I'm going to keep up with it and the Aerodrome. And when it comes to sailing, I'm a real landsman!
Only $3,004 for the next stretch goal.
It was interesting to read the official comment on the KS project that to ship a specific container to EU would require 3,000 backers, 1,000 of whoom would need ot be located in the EU. Roberto said that would be at around the $400K funding level. We'll just have to see. I mean I'm in this anyway, but it would be nice for those who are sitting on the fence at the moment because of the shipping and customs/VAT costs to be given a bit of good news that may bring them in. Purely selfish on my part, I may find someone else to play the game with. :o
I was surprised by the 1000/3000 comment as well but maybe for a different reason.
I had guessed that the probable customer distribution for these products was something similar to the thread/post distribution in the Report For Duty section of the Wings of Glory Aerodrome site
Link
Which would have indicated a higher eu participation rate; perhaps 50% or more.
And it's over $110,000!!!
And there are still only 22 EB Commodores
And I have not even done my add ons yet!
I asked re maps...
Question:
Answer:Couple questions on the mats:
1. Are they going to be "open sea", or have a coastline on one or more corners or along one side?
2. Is there only going to be one design?
Why I ask is, if there are multiple mats planned (or if it's open sea with no preprinted land) I might consider pledging for an extra. :)Refresh my memory--two attitude indicators in the starter or just one?at the moment we are prepared to release one with open sea, but it's possible we'll do more in the future, just like we do with Wings of Glory.
There will be terrain overlays to add coast and islands at the moment.
Last edited by Diamondback; 03-09-2013 at 21:31.
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