Popham's Telegraph Signal Flag Generator

[David Manley]

Enjoy :)

http://www.hmsacasta.com/2012/11/pop...generator.html

[csadn]

I suspect this signal was used a lot when US frigates appeared: 1744 85!

Or: 486 1360 1950 12 24 18 5 11 6 (alternately: 802 15 14 14 1360 163 14 21 19; or the traditional: 125 486 517 2 17 14 22 13 19 17 14 21 18 5 17 18).

;)

[Berthier]

759 873 500

[7eat51]

Now this could make for an interesting twist to multi-player game communication - requiring folks to use some form of signaling when discussing strategy or tactics during play.

[Sea Gull]

Nice link, thanks David.

[Gunner]

Thanks for the link David. It will come in very handy.

[Green flash]

Interesting.

[Beowulf03809]

Cool!

[CHolgren]

This is very cool. It's definitely something my boys could get into and make the game more interesting. My youngest is in a drawing phase so he would love to make the flags.

[Bligh]

Great fun Dave.
Could play with this for hours.

Bligh.

[Gaz67]

[Naharaht]

That looks like a good programme, however I tried a message containing a numeral and it had to spell out the word; surely thay had flags for numerals.

[csadn]

That looks like a good programme, however I tried a message containing a numeral and it had to spell out the word; surely thay had flags for numerals.

I fear not.

And don't call me Shirley. :)

[David Manley]

They did. there was a "numeral" or "numerical" flag that indicated the following flags indicated numbers rather than letters. I'm guessing not in this version though?

[David Manley]

Or, as i've just discovered, (by inputting "steer 320 degrees") you can take the sense of the numerical flagds from the previous word :)

[Naharaht]

I have found out how to display numerals in flags.

[Capt P]

Now Morse Copde I understand but not the flags. Would be a whole new experience.

[7eat51]

Or, as i've just discovered, (by inputting "steer 320 degrees") you can take the sense of the numerical flagds from the previous word :)

I have found out how to display numerals in flags.

Am I correct in that numbers have the triangular pendant as the leading flag before the rectangular flags? I just tried "Steer 320 degrees" and that is how it was formed.

[Naharaht]

Yes, I think that the triangular blue and yellow checkered pennant indicates that the flag below it represents a numeral.

[Gunner]

Sending is straight forward but, excuse my ignorance, how do you read the flags?

[Devsdoc]

Sending is straight forward but, excuse my ignorance, how do you read the flags?

I too am with you on that one Ed. If it makes us feel better, Nelson had a blind spot at flag reading at Copenhagen.
Be safe
Rory

[Naharaht]

There is a paragraph in this Wikipedia article about how signals were sent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England...ll_do_his_duty

[Gunner]

We know how they're sent. Does anyone know how they're read?

[Gunner]

A little more info. http://www.napoleonguide.com/sailors_ukexpect.htm

[Avi]

A little more info. http://www.napoleonguide.com/sailors_ukexpect.htm

Based on several other sites - this account is wrong ...
The signalling was done in "hoists" - not all at once.

This also fits with modern practice... (or not so modern)

See -
http://www.aboutnelson.co.uk/england%20expcts.htm
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb%5Etraf.html

and a nice account on the wording here

http://www.rmg.co.uk/explore/sea-and...ngland-expects

[Gunner]

Based on several other sites - this account is wrong ...
The signalling was done in "hoists" - not all at once.

This also fits with modern practice... (or not so modern)

See -
http://www.aboutnelson.co.uk/england%20expcts.htm
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb%5Etraf.html

and a nice account on the wording here

http://www.rmg.co.uk/explore/sea-and...ngland-expects

The twelve seperate lifts looks like it would be easier to read, but how could the whole fleet see this at one time?
I'm more confused now than ever. And every painting and description I've ever seen shows the signals shown from every mast.

[Avi]

First a warning - I am not an expert on AoS signalling, I rely on secondary sources.

The paintings are usually of Victory in Portsmouth as she is now - and in that state, yes, they hoist all the signal at once, but that is for "show".
Its the same when ships sail into harbour they hoist all kinds of decorative flags (with or without meaning)
As long as they DO NOT fly a yellow flag on the main (Q for quarantine) every one is happy...

As for the rest of the fleet - secondary ships would repeat the message down the line.
I read somewhere (again secondary source on the web - so I have no idea of accuracy) that frigates along the line would repeat the messages for longer to
make sure all the fleet got it.

And last most grand battles where fought in a single line - follow the leader...

[Gunner]

Yes, after I posted I remembered that one of the reasons that frigates were stationed at intervals at a distance off the line was to relay messages.

[7eat51]

So the historical consensus is that the signals were hoisted on a single mast via many rounds of hoisting until the entire message was sent.

I think this discussion highlights several things. First, it is difficult to do history well, as we have discussed in other threads - which sources are accurate, how much do we read historical events through modern lenses, etc. Second, we often forget how simple tasks today, such as communication between ships, were not so easy for those that came before. Third, that accurate communication is vital for success - I have read several accounts of losses occurring due to miscommunication and the resulting harmful maneuvering of ships.

Thanks for the various links. This has made for enjoyable and informative reading, and has seeded ideas for upcoming gameplay.

[Devsdoc]

Hi All,
Yes, One of the jobs of the frigate was to act as repeaters to bounce signals back to the line of bigger SOL. If you look at the bottom of the web-page that David posted on this thread #1 You will see "Source Material". Click on this and all is answered for you.
Be safe
Rory

[Devsdoc]

Hi All,
Sorry You must click on the red top first.
Be safe
Rory

[Gunner]

So the historical consensus is that the signals were hoisted on a single mast via many rounds of hoisting until the entire message was sent. .

I still believe that all masts and the gaff were used(untill convinced otherwise). I've seen too many books and pictures showing all masts being used and can't remember one showing just the mizzen mast. And the arguement that the flags were stored in the signal locker located at the poop isn't reason to believe only the mizzen mast was used.

[7eat51]

I still believe that all masts and the gaff were used(untill convinced otherwise). I've seen too many books and pictures showing all masts being used and can't remember one showing just the mizzen mast. And the arguement that the flags were stored in the signal locker located at the poop isn't reason to believe only the mizzen mast was used.

On the bottom of page 8 of Popham's book, he discusses using multiple masts in certain situations: http://books.google.com/books?id=qxZ...page&q&f=false