Disturbing trend shipmates.

[DeRuyter]

I have to say that for me there are two things that I want out of a game. I want beautiful models and a good sailing feeling of the game.

To me the black sea ships look bad. I first saw the brig and frigate set, and having sailed brigs I didn't really get into the miniatures. They have the wrong shape of the hull and are cartoony with oversized ship's names and figureheads. The paper sails makes my blood boil. I have even had discussions with Henry about his 3D printing sails. I really hate the 2D look of sails. When you put a piece of fabric into the wind it billows. It forms a double curved surface. You can never replicate that with paper or etched metal sheets (unless you use a mushroom smithing anvil thing). Thankfully Simon's 3D printable sails set is good. The size may be a problem if you want to play big battles but may fit small one on one frigate action quite well.

Henry has revised his sail and mast set several times and it is much better than the original free version. I also found another set specifically for the Black Seas frigate and brig which is a big improvement. Although in fairness the cut of sails did change during the period leading to much less of a billowing look once fully set. I agree with you on the Warlord ships, frankly the rules are a bit "hollywood" as well, but that is true of most of their rules. Having said that I have seen some very well-done Black Seas ships. For example:

https://jjwargames.blogspot.com/sear...All%20at%20Sea

He also uses a modified version of the Too Fat Lardies "Kiss Me Hardy" rules for squadron and fleet battles. KMH works well for a games convention where you may find miniatures gamers put off by all the chits used by SoG.

Some thoughts from the perspective of someone new to SoG but not new to gaming:

snip

Computergames anyone? Well, in the past, you bought a game and it was yours. Nowadays, you pay for subscriptions - whether you play the game or not. And many computer games are designed in a manner that urge you make repeated in-game purchases - for real money. Much money spent, but in the end, you own nothing. Opposed to that, every ship-pack you buy is yours.



In fact, after having bought SoG, my first reflex was to see if VASSAL supported a SoG module. Alas, there is none there. I found instructional youtube tutorials etc. but no "virtual playing environment" for SoG. Theoretically, what is possible for countless other games could become possible for SoG. What would be needed is a SoG grognard who happens to be savvy in programming and willing to develop a SoG module for VASSAL. Maybe chances for this and to get things running are slim. But it might be a path to save SoG from long-term oblivion.


Lt. Bush

First as to the VASSAL issue. I think that platform caters more to boardgames, as you noted for ASL. I think miniatures gamers use Table Top Simulator as a virtual platform instead and I believe there are modules (free) for SoG. TTS can be had for $15 or so on sale and most of the modules are free. I played a virtual battle of Trafalgar during the pandemic using Osprey's Fighting Sail rules.

Second, I will quibble with you about computer games. I have yet to see a subscription based wargame and I have way too many games in my Steam account. You may be thinking of the large MMO games which are free but to get ahead you can buy a premium account; World of Tanks is the big example. In the PC wargame space you do sometimes get DLC or modules that you can choose to buy after the base game. For example, a game called "Valor and Victory" based on a board game, a simplified ASL if you will, is set in the Normandy campaign but you can buy a module for the Arnhem campaign or Stalingrad. The base game is $20 and the modules half that or less.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/9...alor__Victory/

However, most games are still a one off purchase and are far less than a comparable board game. For an example related to SOG you have "Ultimate Admiral Age of Sail" which offers a campaign game as well as tactical fleet sailing set during the American Revolution complete for about $30. There are exceptions of course, you might be familiar with Gary Grisby's War in the East2 $80- expensive for a PC game, but you get a very detailed complex game for the money. Bottom line though is that you own all the games and of course they take far less storage space! (Thinking about my bins of 1980s vintage games - including ASL! )

[William Bush]

First as to the VASSAL issue. I think that platform caters more to boardgames, as you noted for ASL. I think miniatures gamers use Table Top Simulator as a virtual platform instead and I believe there are modules (free) for SoG. TTS can be had for $15 or so on sale and most of the modules are free. I played a virtual battle of Trafalgar during the pandemic using Osprey's Fighting Sail rules.

This is a good point.

In fact, I do own a couple of hundred pewter miniatures which I used in the Pen&Paper roleplaying context. But these were always only a few at a time. I remember one day I contemplated to paint them, but when I did the math of how long it would take to do it well, I recoiled. In general, I have more fun playing than doing handicraft and painting. This is probably why I have never played any table-top games as of yet. In turn it did not occur to me that a platform such as VASSAL might indeed exist for table-tops as well

I might check out Table Top Simulator for SoG, thanks for the lead.

Second, I will quibble with you about computer games. I have yet to see a subscription based wargame and I have way too many games in my Steam account. You may be thinking of the large MMO games which are free but to get ahead you can buy a premium account; World of Tanks is the big example. In the PC wargame space you do sometimes get DLC or modules that you can choose to buy after the base game.

Yes, I was thinking of those large MMOs. I dropped out of computer games many years ago when the hype had everything go to "real time" instead of round-based. I hated the hectic rush.


Lt. Bush

[DeRuyter]

By far the best support I've experienced is by Firelock games. Sure, skirmish level pirate games are bound to attract lots of players but their stuff, especially ships, are expensive. Still, that doesn't seem to stop anyone. Firelock's "corporate" Facebook has 24K followers. There are 7,500 in the 28mm skirmish group, "Blood & Plunder - Buccaneering across the Spanish Main". Fair enough, but they also have "Oak & Iron", 1/600 battles - closer to SoG; and that Facebook gamer group has 2,500. Plus there are a few supplementary groups like "Blood & Pigment", etc. that provide articles and Youtube videos analyzing factions, tactics, how to scratch build stuff, etc. That's just to show what is possible despite. I think the key is a critical mass of passionate people. Full credit to Firelock for building that critical mass and keeping it going.

I would echo this sentiment. I have the good fortune to attend conventions where Firelock further supports their games with tournaments. The lead designer Mike Tunez is an approachable guy and wants to get the history right. While the game is "pirates" it is not "Disney pirates".

This is a good point.

In fact, I do own a couple of hundred pewter miniatures which I used in the Pen&Paper roleplaying context. But these were always only a few at a time. I remember one day I contemplated to paint them, but when I did the math of how long it would take to do it well, I recoiled. In general, I have more fun playing than doing handicraft and painting. This is probably why I have never played any table-top games as of yet. In turn it did not occur to me that a platform such as VASSAL might indeed exist for table-tops as well

I might check out Table Top Simulator for SoG, thanks for the lead.




Yes, I was thinking of those large MMOs. I dropped out of computer games many years ago when the hype had everything go to "real time" instead of round-based. I hated the hectic rush.


Lt. Bush

Totally agree with you on the movement to RTS games. An outgrowth of the fast twitch shooter games like COD. I think there is a new trend in importing hex based board games to the PC and even turn based strategy games in general. As an ASL player you may be interested in this trend. I mentioned one, another good tactical squad based game is "Lock n Load Tactical Digital. You buy the base game and then modules depending on what era or front interests you.

https://store.lnlpublishing.com/

As I noted before Slitherine/Matrix Games is a big publisher in the turn based wargame genre.

You bring up the advantage to the prepainted SoG ships or WoG aircraft (also the Star Wars models from FFG) in that it appeals to the gamer who does not want spend time modelling. Miniature gamers who don't have time to paint often will get pro painters to do it for them, but of course this raises the costs tremendously, especially with ship models. The Ares ship pack are a bargain in this respect!

3d printing is becoming more of a force in the hobby (it is a hobby in and of itself frankly!). Printing and selling the ships is not a problem because they are historical models. Unlike say Warhammer or Star Wars models - although I have seen a lot of models that look suspiciously like 40k space marines or Imperial Storm Troopers with different names. If anyone is going after copyright on this, it would be Games Workshop! As to ship mats and other accessories that may be problematic. Personally, I like using an erasable ship record like the one Dobbs made versus the chits and ship mats from Ares.

[Bligh]

We generally use modified mats faced with transperseal for shows which speeds up the action by dispensing with chips totally, and the whiteboard marker pen damage indications can be wiped after each game. It is also my habit of producing mats for my individual fortifications. Here are a couple of examples.

Rob.

[William Bush]

We generally use modified mats faced with transperseal for shows which speeds up the action by dispensing with chips totally, and the whiteboard marker pen damage indications can be wiped after each game. It is also my habit of producing mats for my individual fortifications. Here are a couple of examples.

Rob.

These look very nice!

Especially against the background of unavailable Ship Mats, this approach seems to be a sensible alternative.

Are there some templates available for a default "Ship" or "Battery" that would allow one to edit and create one's own for the Ship Packs missing Ship Mats for download anywhere?

Lt. Bush

[Bligh]

Thanks for the Rep William and PM sent.
Rob.

[William Bush]

Thanks for the Rep William and PM sent.
Rob.

Admiral,

please allow me to return my thanks and gratitude to you for the same.
I will revel in the memories of being addressed to hand you the salt for the rest of my career, if you take my meaning.

I made haste to despatch an answer to your message.

Lt. Bush