Disturbing trend shipmates.

[Vagabond]

I'm afraid Lt Bush is right, there will be no new players because the core starter sets are pretty much unavailable, you can still get ships but there are fewer now than say 2 years ago and I don't think I've seen ship cards for sale at a reasonable price for a long time. If the manufacturers don't support the game it will eventually die. I don't mean support it with new and exciting product, that doesn't seem to be Ares way but I mean support it with existing bog standard stuff.

I do like the rules and feel that for small scale ship actions they work well, being simple enough to pick up and play a game without getting bogged down in complex rules and damage tables etc. Where the game shines is in using the many scenarios posted on this forum, most of these involve a few ships and give exciting and enjoyable games, they are the only reason I started playing and posting here.

I know it's been said before but really Ares should make the rules, damage counters and movement decks freely available to keep the game alive and then be able to capitalise on the player base when they release new models but to be honest I don't think they see a future for the game and so are concentrating their efforts elsewhere and it certainly isn't on WoG either.
Cheers

[Bligh]

I agree totaly with you John.
If Ares concentrated upon the Starter sets, basics, and ancillary chits and mats, anyone wanting to expand their fleets could use the growing numbers of existing printed ships to satisfy their needs.
Money for old rope.

Rob.

[William Bush]

I'm afraid Lt Bush is right, there will be no new players because the core starter sets are pretty much unavailable, you can still get ships but there are fewer now than say 2 years ago and I don't think I've seen ship cards for sale at a reasonable price for a long time. If the manufacturers don't support the game it will eventually die. I don't mean support it with new and exciting product, that doesn't seem to be Ares way but I mean support it with existing bog standard stuff.

I can report that as a newbie I had no troubles of finding Starter Packs and Ship Packs, even most Accessories with the (important) exception of Ship Mats in the net. Prices varied significantly for the same articles. This is probably because at some places the same articles have been on offer for a long time without need of being replenished and updated to current higher prices in the process.

What a manufacturer should do is indeed to keep the critical components continuously available.
IMHO these are a) the counters b) the ship mats c) the Starter Set.

For the rules it would be sufficient to make them available as a PDF. They are not long and thus can be printed on a standard printer at home without difficulty if need be. In fact, I found the rules in the net as a PDF. So we are fine here.

At any time, at least some ships must be available. Some models, bases, movement profiles, etc. are vital. It is not necessary to keep the whole line of Ship Packs available. But there should at least be some of each type (i.e. from the small sloop through the 1st rate).
If some Ship Packs go out of production, so be it, as long as now and then new one are issued or old ones reissued.

Advances in 3D-scanning and 3D printing will allow dedicated players to create their own models for use with SoG. These could be offered as Third Party Products. I am no professional regarding copy right, but I can see no infringement in doing so. The ship models would be - without doubt - the most difficult parts to produce.

Cards for movement profiles are much simpler. In this area, too, by creating them not exactly alike Ares products but 100% compatible with SoG would probably be fine with regard to copyright.

Beside the ship model the most difficult part of a Ship Pack to produce would be the thick card-stock damage/crew profile (and all thick cardstock components of the game for that matter). I know from TPPs in the ASL area that printing counters - and having it done well - is challenging. Money is involved, precision required on all sides, and a certain amount of bulk to make it worthwhile. Bulk to cut down on cost could be critical for purposes of SoG. If one would refrain from producing counters and other components on thick cardstock, one could of course print on paper/thick paper easily at home and then glue that on cardboard, finally cutting out the components with scissors. Not as nice. People did not like that approach very much in the field of ASL.

So, creating game components for SoG as a TPP is a challenge, but not impossible.
For some game components such as scenarios, movement profiles, rules it is not difficult.

So even if there is suboptimal support from Ares, dedicated and committed grognards can conceivably fill in that gap.
In fact, my impression is that in part, they have already done so.

I have not throughly sounded out the depth of this forum, but I noticed the following:

- Grongnards were in contact with Ares to discuss and define ship-values and characteristics. Some new Ship Packs were created at least partly based on these exchanges.
- Grognards have created extensions to rules: Gunboats, booms, boats, landing operations vs. batteries etc. If brought into format, what keeps them from becoming Third Party Products?
- Grognards have created various models on an individual basis. Some pieces will remain unique as some elaborate upgrades to ships with amazing paint jobs. Some could also me made available for a wider audience: Models of the ship's boats for landing operations (via 3D-files for free) or as a product which can be purchased, i.e. the 3D-printed boats/bases along with appropriate cards & rules as a set for example. My first reaction when I saw some pictures of these in some thread was to check out if these could be purchased as Accessories.

As contacts between Ares and grognards exist, it could be possible to find out the attitude of Ares towards such TPPs: Is Ares hostile so such things? Or it is benevolent, figuring that in a "live and let live" approach that accepting TPPs might also promote the sales of the components that they still produce themselves.

I do like the rules and feel that for small scale ship actions they work well, being simple enough to pick up and play a game without getting bogged down in complex rules and damage tables etc. Where the game shines is in using the many scenarios posted on this forum, most of these involve a few ships and give exciting and enjoyable games, they are the only reason I started playing and posting here.

I agree. Learning ASL without a tutor in isolation as a non-native English speaker was hell - to put it mildly.
SoG is much more accessible. If you want learn by tutor, though, in SoG you need a face-to-face opponent as there seem to be no virtual interfaces available as far as I am aware of.

I know it's been said before but really Ares should make the rules, damage counters and movement decks freely available to keep the game alive and then be able to capitalise on the player base when they release new models but to be honest I don't think they see a future for the game and so are concentrating their efforts elsewhere and it certainly isn't on WoG either.
Cheers

Indeed. But if they don't, rules, movement decks and maybe even damage counters could be created in a 100% compatible version (in line with copyright) as TPPs by some of the grognard players around here. They already do similar things on an individual basis.


Lt. Bush