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Thread: Whats on your workbench for June

  1. #151
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    How fascinating! It looks like that one is mounted over the touch hole. I thought that they were in addition to the touch hole. I imagine that they must have been an option. I think I read that some folks thought them to have a negative impact on aiming.

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    Some new data on Spanish 74's I've been chewing on... Bahama was rebuilt up to a 74 in 1788, after the first 2-3 Ildefonsos hit water. We need an Ildefonso draught (not the crappy one Greenwich has as a storeship) to compare the Greenwich drawings and dimensions on Bahama to.
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    The best I could find was this information on Three Decks DB.
    You probably already know this though.
    Rob.

    https://threedecks.org/index.php?dis...w_ship&id=2682
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Nice work, Rob!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    How fascinating! It looks like that one is mounted over the touch hole. I thought that they were in addition to the touch hole. I imagine that they must have been an option. I think I read that some folks thought them to have a negative impact on aiming.
    I think you will find that it is mounted on a block at the side of the touchhole Dobbs. I suspect that the sparks are directed sideways onto the primed touchole so that in the event of failure a match can be applied to the priming. This again is only conjecture on my part and we would need to see the lock from the other side to be sure.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  6. #156
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    Thanks again Jonas.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    The best I could find was this information on Three Decks DB.
    You probably already know this though.
    Rob.

    https://threedecks.org/index.php?dis...w_ship&id=2682
    I'm more inclined to trust the measurements from Winfield on both--the key piece is profile drawings; as I've said before if you compare a Strike Eagle, a Tomcat and a Flanker they're all twin-engine, twin-tail, two-seat deltas of similar size and layout and yet the dimensions don't tell the full story of their radically different variations on that same basic theme. I know that if I were the Master Shipwright at Cadiz-Carraca tasked with bulking a 64 up into a 74, I'd want to use an existing blueprint rather than re-invent the wheel, and similarly if I was the Admiralty ordering such rebuild I'd want it done to the current "fleet standard" design so as to maximize commonality fleetwide.

    BWAS 1793-1817
    LGD's - Bahama 53.34, Ildefonso 53.35 (ARS Bahama at Threedecks 52.93)
    Beam - Bahama 14.64, Ildefonso 14.64 (ARS Bahama at Threedecks 14.21)
    BM - Bahama 1786, Ildefonso 1751
    Implication: Either the ThreeDecks entry has her dimensions as a 64 (she'd be a damn big one; the last British 64's were a full 4m shorter, and the San Fulgencios that were the end of the 64 worldwide 2m!) or she was measured post-refit--major structural alterations seem unlikely for a ship destined to only serve as a prison hulk, so my suspicion is that the Spanish measurements were "as first planned" and that the Ildefonso design was substituted between that point and saws-to-wood.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    I think you will find that it is mounted on a block at the side of the touchhole Dobbs. I suspect that the sparks are directed sideways onto the primed touchole so that in the event of failure a match can be applied to the priming. This again is only conjecture on my part and we would need to see the lock from the other side to be sure.

    Rob.
    My thought is that if you placed the lock on top of the touchhole it would take the force of the charge as the cannon fired and that would damage the lock quite quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    I'm more inclined to trust the measurements from Winfield on both--the key piece is profile drawings; as I've said before if you compare a Strike Eagle, a Tomcat and a Flanker they're all twin-engine, twin-tail, two-seat deltas of similar size and layout and yet the dimensions don't tell the full story of their radically different variations on that same basic theme. I know that if I were the Master Shipwright at Cadiz-Carraca tasked with bulking a 64 up into a 74, I'd want to use an existing blueprint rather than re-invent the wheel, and similarly if I was the Admiralty ordering such rebuild I'd want it done to the current "fleet standard" design so as to maximize commonality fleetwide.

    BWAS 1793-1817
    LGD's - Bahama 53.34, Ildefonso 53.35 (ARS Bahama at Threedecks 52.93)
    Beam - Bahama 14.64, Ildefonso 14.64 (ARS Bahama at Threedecks 14.21)
    BM - Bahama 1786, Ildefonso 1751
    Implication: Either the ThreeDecks entry has her dimensions as a 64 (she'd be a damn big one; the last British 64's were a full 4m shorter, and the San Fulgencios that were the end of the 64 worldwide 2m!) or she was measured post-refit--major structural alterations seem unlikely for a ship destined to only serve as a prison hulk, so my suspicion is that the Spanish measurements were "as first planned" and that the Ildefonso design was substituted between that point and saws-to-wood.
    I agree that much more can be learned from drawings than just from the stats as DB wrote.

    Those stats are very much telling a strange story. I don't believe that they would elongate the keel though. It would probably have been almost as big of a job as to build a new ship from the timber of the old one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexaS View Post
    I agree that much more can be learned from drawings than just from the stats as DB wrote.

    Those stats are very much telling a strange story. I don't believe that they would elongate the keel though. It would probably have been almost as big of a job as to build a new ship from the timber of the old one.
    The French did exactly that with the 1776 rebuild of Sphinx--tore down the old ship and reassembled its timbers to match the 1765 Artesien design, and several older 1740s 74's were done similarly to he design of 1760s Citoyen to make up the rest of her class. My gut is we had a full "Breakup and Reassemble" there... Spanish naval records are frustratingly incomplete even for the folks that DO speak the language, and very little of that work has been translated for the benefit of us who either do not or are decades out of practice.

    Then again, I have a friend who's with Army Corps of Engineers, and even though G.'s heritage is Mexican rather than Castilian Spanish and his military service was Army rather than Navy, he might be able to help me muddle through it. I owe him a shoot session sometime anyway... that might be a good time to float the idea, if we can ever synch schedules.
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  11. #161
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    Meanwhile after 37 years of work the culmination of my Carronade project.
    This morning I did my final shaping of the breeching loop.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Bligh; 06-24-2021 at 11:47.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Then it was fitted to the Breech to complete the project.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Here are a couple more shots of the completed Carronade.
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Now just a matter of making and fitting the drag lines and their accoutrements.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Must be energizing, having the end in sight... :) with the easy stuff done and nothing but drudgery between fine touchup and filing/sanding masts I've slipped into "motivationally deficient."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post

    When I needed a set of large blocks, I built them up from layers of model aircraft plywood. My thought was that, with the line led, you couldn't see the sheaves anyway, so why bother?

    If you need pointers on reeving the line, I can give you input there.
    What thickness of wood did you use for your blocks Dobbs? Also I would be interested in reeving. Mt sons suggestion that I should backsplice the pulling end was dismissed by me as sheer fantasy! So was eyesplices for the hook eyes, and running an Admiralty red thread through the lines. The last time I did that sort of thing was in the Scouts 60 years ago, and on a much larger scale.
    I include the pictures for the less initiated landsmen in the crew.

    Attached Images Attached Images   
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  17. #167
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    For eyesplices, I think your best bet would be to form the eye, then with whipping twine put a few stitches through the doubled part to hold it, then cover the doubled part with a whipping.

    Another option is the Jenneau Halyard knot. This makes a tidy looking attachment to a ring.

    I think I used 1/16" aircraft plywood for the blocks. I can measure later today if it's not too late.

    https://www.jeanneau-owners.com/hint...lyardknot.html

    If you lived closer, I'd offer to spice them. It seems like my kind of challenge!
    Last edited by Dobbs; 06-25-2021 at 07:04.

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    Thanks Dobbs. That is what I will do.
    The link answers for me another part of the plot too.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Just when I thought it was O.K. to come out, this book arrived, too late to be much good for the project but it will make good bedtime reading.
    Rob.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Now the story can be told.

    After a spell in engineering, I became a teacher, and after 30 years in the Metalwork and woodwork dept teaching up to and including A level Engineering, it was deemed that no one in the subject was qualified on safety issues. All teachers were sent on a series of courses to learn about what we had been teaching safely for years. Among setting up and maintaining grinding wheels, Forge work, casting, welding and several other courses finally came up the week where we found out about woodworking and metalworking machines. The lecturer having found that the whole thing was a waste of my time, comprising a series of little projects each morning and afternoon, suggested that I might like to take on a project of my own whicg would take in all the machines and processes covered in the briefs. Thus was the Carronade project born.

    All I had to go on in those days before internet access was this book, and the one un calibrated picture within it.






    After four days work, I had the gun barrel completed save for the breeching eye, and most of the slide mechanism finished.

    On my return to work, I discovered that I was somehow now to assume the role of Head of the Technology Department with an Ofsted Inspection coming up in a few months time.
    My incomplete project went on the back burner for what I envisaged would be a few months. 17 years later, I retired and vowed to complete my Carronade. Three months later my eyesight suffered a catastrophe which precluded all my craft work for several years. So here I am 15 years later and it took a Covid epidemic in full flow to get me to finally finish off what has turned out to be just a couple of weeks work.



    Another tick on my Buckwet list, using the superb pictures of HMS Victory to refine and complete the work I had started 27 years ago.

    Rob.
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    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  21. #171
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    It's interesting what covid has meant for hobby projects. I returned to my Swedish Great Northern Wars army for the first time in 15 years. It was started when a friend started writing his rules for the period. I'm very close to finishing the cavalry that I bought more than twenty years ago. There's still infantry and some limbers and it will be finished.

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    We must see it when finished Jonas!
    Hopefully after a day off the workbench doing a little job for Captain Smithers, I will be back on the Swedish Frigates next week.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    I too started a project, my Jacobite rebellion project in 1995 while stationed in Scotland, when I left the army in 1996 it had only 4 clan units and 6 government regiments and a cavalry regiment, fast forward to covid, I now have all 15 regts of British for Culloden, plus all the cavalry, plus all infantry and cavalry for Prestonpans as well as all the highland and lowland and French units for the same two battles. And rigged all my remaining ships , until the 3d revolution anyway

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    Strange to say, although I enacted the Jacobite Rebellion for years, and fought at both Prestonpans and Falkirk, I never got around to producing the armies Chris.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    We must see it when finished Jonas!
    That will take a few years, I’d guess.
    There’s a possibility that I’d make the three limbers missing, and twelve dragoon troopers, even finishing the four cavalry step markers this year, but painting eight battalions of infantry will take a while.

    I’m looking forward to seeing your Swedish frigates though!

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    While I wait for another flash of motivation, tearing into the history of Grandpa and my old prof's old outfit, looking for ideas and inspiration to write a campaign about the Checkertails' war in the MTO. (I have an idea but I doubt Ares will bite... with the low margins on their baseline Squadron Packs, I'm trying to come up with some ideas for 'premium' miniature packs worth paying a little more for, and one of the ideas I'm thinking of is a pack with two specifically-marked aces' planes, Ace Decks for those pilots and a campaign book tracing either their careers or their squadron/group's major actions with that aircraft type, about the size of a WGF Duel Pack.)
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  27. #177
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    Today I have been printing flags and turning them out on decal paper.
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    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    I hate to tell you Rob, but that vice admiral marking wasn't in use at the time.

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    Thanks Jonas.
    Luckily, I did not get as far as that one this evening, and there would only have been one anyway.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Just found this bit in the Napoleonic Naval Armaments book.

    A letter from the Admiralty written as early as 1755 stipulated that gunlocks were to be fitted for use on HM ships. These locks were fitted to the side of the vent field on the gun and were used in conjunction with tin priming tubes. These tubes were filled with an exploding composition, which meant that the whole process of priming the gun became far more efficient than before. It also protected from loose priming powder being scattered about whilst burning embers were around.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    Just found this bit in the Napoleonic Naval Armaments book.

    A letter from the Admiralty written as early as 1755 stipulated that gunlocks were to be fitted for use on HM ships. These locks were fitted to the side of the vent field on the gun and were used in conjunction with tin priming tubes. These tubes were filled with an exploding composition, which meant that the whole process of priming the gun became far more efficient than before. It also protected from loose priming powder being scattered about whilst burning embers were around.

    Rob.
    These ships were already floating firetraps that would go up if somebody farted hard, and did so with disturbing frequency; if even the cheap stupid bastards at the Admiralty saw the value in a mitigating investment like these that's a powerful testament to the expected Return on Investment in the "asset protection department" at a time when reducing the danger of the working environment was treated with almost reckless disregard.
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    A very perceptive remark DB. It is a pity that the Army High Command in the War Office did not see things in that light too.

    I am now of course set on a new quest to discover the component parts of this mysterious "exploding composition." mentioned.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Hi DB just tried to pm you but seems your inbox is full

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    A very perceptive remark DB. It is a pity that the Army High Command in the War Office did not see things in that light too.

    I am now of course set on a new quest to discover the component parts of this mysterious "exploding composition." mentioned.

    Rob.
    Fire isn't as big a hazard on land, you can always run away and let it burn. On a ship, you run TO the fire with a bucket brigade because if it burns through the hull you go glug-glug-glug...

    Re gunlocks, start looking in Nicholas Rodger's " The Command of the Ocean:A Naval History of Britain 1649–1815." You might also reach out to Dixie Gun Works; and I have a gun-board buddy who's a retired British Army senior officer and weapons expert (Dunblane brought a bloodbath on his reference collection) who might be able to help out with some leads. (He spends a big chunk of every year down the coast in Oregon, and gets his shooting in when over here; actually Canadian by birth but stayed over there because the wife's a Brit and all the kids and grandkids are on The Isles.)
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  35. #185
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    Chris, replied by email; Rob, I put up the batsignal for a couple artillery experts I know.

    ETA: This might help. http://www.thepirateking.com/histori...on_primers.htm
    Last edited by Diamondback; 06-29-2021 at 21:42.
    --Diamondback
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  36. #186
    Admiral of the Fleet.
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    Thanks DB, I will take a look. Strange thing is that the musket propped up in the corner of my cabin is from Dixie Gun Works.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  37. #187
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    Got a formula from your suggestions thanks DB.

    Antimony, sulphide and potassium chlorate. No real use, but it fills a gap in a story line if I ever need it!

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  38. #188
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    Andy suggests you give Albert Manucy's "Artillery Through The Ages" a read too.
    --Diamondback
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  39. #189
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    I will do that.
    Thanks DB.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  40. #190
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    Just picked it up for 49 pence on Kindle DB.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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