I have always used this primer on my islands and plastic forts. It doesn't seem to affect styrene, but does eat unprotected foam (white glue protects the foam).
Does anyone know if it is safe for the plastic that these ships are made of? Any alternative recommendations for primer?
I have been using Games Workshop spray can primers ever since year dot, but yesterday for the first time they declined to post either that or the varnish to me so by the end of next week I will be stuck also.
Rob.
The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.
Primer is worth its weight in gold :/ I don't know why it's so restricted over here.Originally Posted by Bligh
Regarding what works on these models - I've used Tamiya, Citadel and Halfords white acrylic spray with no issues.
For the curious, this is the brand of resin I use:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOVA3D-Curi...ct_top?ie=UTF8
As for an update on the models - I didn't do any printing over the weekend, as it was my birthday, but I've just about got the 1/1000 sets done. However, since I want to send everything all at once, I'm afraid dispatch won't take place until I finish the 1/1200 sets but, being the smallest, they shouldn't take too long to print. I somewhat wisely chose to start with the 1/700 masts as the first I printed, and they're all done.
Thanks for the update Henry. Good month for a birthday too. Mine is in a couple of weeks time.
Rob.
The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.
I usually use the cheap primers from either HD or Lowe's on my plastic models with no problems. Could be Rustoleum or Krylon. I usually get the indoor version though, in black. I have found that a grey sandable auto primer works well on my plastic WWII ships as a base coat. I think it is Krylon as well.
Happy Birthday, Henry! Mine's at the end of the month.
Happy birthday, Henry! Hope you had some way of celebrating it, in those days of the yellow flag.
What the others said, hope you had a Happy! :)
--Diamondback
PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.
Happy birthday Henry. Hope you had a great day and a tall single malt!
Wellp, pledges are all boxed and labelled - I'm sending them out today :)
https://imgur.com/b4961c48-5bd9-45f4-b25d-9e825ed65bd8
Hopefully the Brits will get them in 2-3 days, the Americans in 1-2 weeks.
Thanks for the update Henry.
That was faster than I was anticipating.
Rob.
The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.
Has anyone had their ships arrive yet? I've not had any feedback on how well they survived transit, aside from one guy who ordered a large 1/1200 custom order - so I'd be curious to hear, please!
I haven't, though I have been checking my post office box daily!
In a related question, I picked up some Tamiya spray primer. Will this be safe with the printer plastic?
Yes, should be, so long as it's acrylic spray intended for modelling :)
I've used Tamiya acrylics successfully on my prototypes before.
Mine arrived in fine fettle Henry. Thank you for your very prompt delivery. You will find mine in post 110 on the thread " What's on your workbench for March?"
Rob.
The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.
Nothing today at the post office.
Ships arrived today in excellent condition. No broken cat heads, lanterns or cannons. I would advise others to take your time unboxing as some of the masts did slip down in the box and might have been missed amongst the packing material. It is amazing to see how small 1/1000 is when you've been working on 1/700 ships for some time. I did not take close ups of all the ships. Thanks Henry!
"It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
–English Proverb
Looking good Jim.
I found knocking out the props under the ships almost as addictive as popping bubble wrap. Shows how much lockdown has brought us back to the simple pleasures in life.
Rob.
The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.
Now I really hope mine are here on Monday!
Haven't got to that stage yet, but from what you've said it does sound like some lockdown fun.
"It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
–English Proverb
I was trying very carefully to remove the struts with a craft knife and worked all around the edges. Once that was done I gingerly started on the second row in when I heard this cracking sound and several broke at once. That is where it gets easy as you can just rip through the rest with your knife and they break off at the root of the hull like scything througu the jungle. That is the very satisfying part.
Rob.
The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.
Still trying, and dismally failing, to paint mine, just not coming out right, not sure how these models, nice as they are willtake to game handling.
I dont think I would use them at ashow but keep for a home game where its known to take care.
I would have to agree. Having handled them from out of the box to the table for some photos they are feeling pretty delicate, and the masts even more so. As for painting, etc., I'm not sure when I'll be ready to tackle that?
"It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
–English Proverb
Good to know, I had planned to use sprue nippers.
--Diamondback
PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.
I generally try to (holding just the "base"), bend the piece and see if everything will just "pop" off.
If it's not forthcoming, I work at the supports with some very fine clippers and keep retrying.
The supports' individual connections aren't strong, the ship's only hold on by the sheer volume of supports.
The squadron has arrived safe and sound. The trans-Atlantic crossing has been weathered with only one dog-eared cathead, suffered by San Jose' (easily fixed with a piece of styrene). The ships are as beautiful as I had hoped!
One question; after breaking off the base, the underside of the boats seem gooey. How do I de-goo-ify?
I usually wash of all plastic moulded models in warm water with washing up detergent Dobbs.
Rob.
The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.
These look like construction hulks on timber supports!
The squadron has arrived safe and sound. The trans-Atlantic crossing has been weathered with only one dog-eared cathead, suffered by San Jose' (easily fixed with a piece of styrene). The ships are as beautiful as I had hoped!
One question; after breaking off the base, the underside of the boats seem gooey. How do I de-goo-ify?
It seems that rubbing alcohol removes the goo.
I will bear that in mind Dobbs. I think it is what I know as surgical spirit.
Rob.
The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.
I didn't realize there was any "goo" on printed models. None of the resin or FDM hulls I have received have had any problems taking paint, unlike models coming out of molds with soapy mold-release residue still on them. I just spray primed all of Henry's resin ships.
It is uncured resin, where UV light couldn't get to it, due to the coverage of supports and hull, and where alcohol baths didn't have the agitation to disturb partially cooked resin.
You can either wash it away with more alcohol, or cure it by leaving the soft part exposed to daylight, and avoid touching it to leave finger prints if in an area which can show.
There is no mould release agent, which is why plastic parts are usually greasy and don't take paint.
Some FDM filaments (e.g. Nylon) self lubricate during printing and in their life, so cannot be painted effectively, but PLA is quite easy to paint.
It is my understanding that resin is very toxic. Is the 'uncured' resin residue also as toxic? Before I handle these models any further I'd like to be clear on that? Thanks in advance.
"It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
–English Proverb
Very is probably a stretch. Treat it as you would CA glue or enamel thinners. Don't drink it, wear gloves if you can't handle it without getting it on you, ventilation is good.
Once cured it is just plastic. One primed it is painted plastic and absolutely innocuous.
Perhaps something to watch for when receiving unpainted and still supported models though, as there may be some 'live' resin on the lower surfaces and inside. A second cleaning and curing of the 'obscured' areas is probably a good idea, if for no other reasons than for durability and a resiliant primer coating.
Thanks for that information David and Jim.
I am sure it will help a lot of us to be more aware of the potential dangers.
Rob.
The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.
Thanks for rep, Rob. Coincidentally, I had just watched a YouTube video about 3D printing where the creator was going to great lengths to make it clear that you needed to take precautions when using resins. This is what prompted my question and concern.
"It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
–English Proverb
Thanks for the info. Having done a bit more research online I will treat the uncured goo as toxic to the touch, most likely wearing gloves while cleaning. Thanks again.
"It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
–English Proverb
Thanks for all of the information, David. It's very interesting. This is all new to me. I'm glad I guessed right on the alcohol. The uncured plastic also had quite the bouquet!
To make sure I wouldn't damage anything, rinsed my least favorite model down with alchohol, then washed it with warm soapy water just to cover all my bases. Thanks, Rob!
Last edited by Dobbs; 04-06-2021 at 18:22.
Now, what kind of glue should I use? I tried model styrene cement and it just bounced off.
CA or epoxy. For most of the resins and Filaments.
You can also glue some times of plastic with their suitable solvent, but this is more useful for FDM (and then not really for PLA, as it's solvents are unpleasant). ABS is soluble in Acetone, which can be used as a cement (with or without dissolved ABS as a filler).
You obviously should test on your waste material first to ensure it will bond, and not dissolve the material too aggressively if trying out other options. And ventilation for any volatiles/bonding fumes.
You have a resin, rather than a filament, just adding the information on ABS bonding as it might be useful/relevant for other uses.
We used a Chloroform based glue for Acrylics in the old days, and it welded parts together like Polystyrene cement does to Revel and Airfix model ships. You do need to use masks and ventilate too, or when you finally wake up, if you ever do, you have a cracker of a headache.I would think it is not allowed these days.
Rob.
The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.
I am letting my hulls soak in a sunbeam, as it sounds that UV solves all ills (don't forget to rotate).
With the added value that it will help to destroy Covid as well Dobbs.
Rob.
The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.
Setting them in the sun for the afternoon seems to have done the trick. Suzanne flipped them over every hour to make sure they got evenly roasted. The bottoms are much more firm now and the odor is much subdued.
I have just stuck mine outside Dobbs.
Rob.
The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.
I use the al fresco curing method myself unless I'm in a hurry. New prints were cooking off nicely inside an hour during the unseasonably good weather last week
My problem with leaving them outside for curing is that my cats may take an interest giving true meaning to curiosity killed the cat! In between the natural curing and a cheap nail polish lamp I can forego the $$ for a wash and cure station - they can be close to the price of the printer itself!!
Even in a cloudy sky with the odd sunny periods they were done in a couple of hours.
Rob.
The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.
I'm curious, weren't Canada's and Ganges' about the same size historically? That the Canada on the left.
Glad to hear everything arrived!
The squadron has arrived safe and sound. The trans-Atlantic crossing has been weathered with only one dog-eared cathead, suffered by San Jose' (easily fixed with a piece of styrene). The ships are as beautiful as I had hoped!
One question; after breaking off the base, the underside of the boats seem gooey. How do I de-goo-ify?
That goo is uncured resin that has failed to be cleaned off. To clarify, after printing every model got washed for 5 minutes in alcohol before being run through an ultrasonic cleaner twice. I then went over each one by hand, using an old paintbrush to apply alcohol and remove excess resin clogging up details. I then ran each ship under a tap. Unfortuantely, though, the bottoms of the ships being covered by their rafts/supports meant that they weren't as easily "got to." You can either wash it off with 90%+ alcohol or just cure the undersides under a UV light (natural or artificial) for 10~ minutes. I'd go for the latter since it's not like the undersides of the ships are going to be visible, so a bit of cured resin residue won't be an issue.
I use a more expensive resin that isn't as bad as what you hear about in the real horror stories but, yes, it *will* irritate your skin if you rub it on there and leave it. But with a residue like what's on these ships, just wash your hands thoroughly after touching it and don't touch your eyes. The worst part is just how sticky it makes things.
Yes I really owe you all an apology, sorry, it was negligent of me to not think to give a bit of a warning about the risk of uncured resin. Again, though, while not totally safe I can at least say the stuff I use (https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOVA3D-Curi...ct_top?ie=UTF8) isn't the worst.
You'll want superglue, just like with traditional resin models, plastic glues aren't going to cut it.
I wear surgical gloves when doing the print removals/first clean, but I've been handling them with my bare hands after that - but I suppose I wasn't directly touching the undersides of the bases!
Yeah natural UV light from the sun does just fine! I use a nail curing lamp just to make sure everything gets an even spread, but if you've got someone rotating the models around at regular intervals, you should get an even cure.
Not necessarily! If memory serves, my nail curing lamp was something like £8, and my Ultrasonic Cleaner was maybe £15? All cheap Chinese stuff, of course, but it does the job. Ironically the cleaner does itself need a deep clean, though.
I'm sorry, that seems to be a legitimate mistake :/
I'm curious, weren't Canada's and Ganges' about the same size historically? That the Canada on the left.
I size the ships by breadth, rather than length, as I find the varied ways of measuring lengths (by keel, by gundeck) inconsistent and confusing. Of course, the issue with sizing the model by breadth is that you have to account for the fact that the hull planking isn't visible on ship plans. That's led to a few mistakes on my earlier ships. I'd like to think I've got better with practice, but I have to confess that the Canada model's base hull was sculpted perhaps 10 months ago and could well therefore have not been modelled in the same way as the rest of the range. And of course even when everything goes swimmingly, I still often find stuff ends up being 1-2mm~ off.
Here are the exact measurements according to my STL files (note these are based on the longest/widest points of the model as show in the 3D preview, so length would be the tip of the bow back to the top of the lanterns, potentially, while the breadth will be measured from the furthest protruding points such as cannons or catsheads; whatever stretches out further on the axis):
Do those match your models there, Dobbs? Just want to make sure I haven't compounded the cock-up by sending you a 1/1200 model. There being a 4 metre difference (at 1:1) in the length of both ships does suggest there's something wrong there, though. At the least I'll provide the STL file for whichever ship is most out. If I have sent you a 1/1200 Canada, I'll send you out a 1/1000 one.
EDIT: Realised the image had the ships' positions within the 3D environment, rather than their dimensions, updated the image now.
Addendum: Not sure how intuitive this is, but here are both ships lined up with the front railings of their forecastles being exactly parallel, I've drawn two planes; one cropping said forecastle "front" and the other ending at the end of Canada's hull. Canada from forecastle to stern is about 50.05mm, with the Ganges going about 2.56mm further. Obviously this is only an approximation of a gundeck length comparison.
Last edited by HenryTurner; 04-10-2021 at 03:48.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks