Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Reflections on Springing at Anchor

  1. #1
    1st Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    1,233
    Blog Entries
    13
    Name
    Dobbs

    Default Reflections on Springing at Anchor

    I revisited my old Springing Rules and determined that they were clunky at best, or unmanageable at worst. I like the way SoG takes complex ideas and expresses them in a simple, fast playing format. I decided I had to revise my ideas.

    My newest Springing Rules:

    Springing Rules.pdf


    This was a test of my newest Springing Rules.

    Name:  1.jpg
Views: 57
Size:  123.5 KB

    To set the tableau, during the Quasi-war, the American frigate Saratoga discovers a French frigate watering on a small island in the Caribbean. The French, caught off guard and on a lee shore decide to fight from a spring instead of slipping the anchor.

    Name:  2.jpg
Views: 59
Size:  162.8 KB

    The springing player announces that the spring is set up to port, and after movement cards for the next turn have been picked reveals his action. A 4 point turn is not guaranteed for a frigate, and the player successfully pulls an “E” chit.

    Name:  3.jpg
Views: 59
Size:  166.1 KB

    Each wedge represents 2 points of arc or 22.5 degrees.

    Name:  4.jpg
Views: 59
Size:  153.4 KB

    Saratoga stands on in…

    Name:  5.jpg
Views: 58
Size:  142.8 KB

    The long view, still outside of range.

    Name:  6.jpg
Views: 59
Size:  166.2 KB

    Name:  7.jpg
Views: 58
Size:  151.9 KB

    Courageuse continues to spring to starboard, but is limited in her turn rate, since she can only turn a maximum of 6 points every two turns.

    Name:  8.jpg
Views: 59
Size:  157.1 KB

    Saratoga continues to stand on in…

    Name:  9.jpg
Views: 57
Size:  113.3 KB

    Courageuse’s captain feels that the deterrent of having to sail straight into the teeth of a broadside might encourage the Yankee to depart, and continues to spring to starboard.

    Name:  10.jpg
Views: 56
Size:  133.0 KB

    He’s wrong. Saratoga wears, just out of range.

    Name:  11.jpg
Views: 58
Size:  154.5 KB

    Feeling secure in his position, Courageuse’s captain gives the order for the men at the capstan to “Hold Fast”!

    Name:  12.jpg
Views: 57
Size:  122.5 KB

    Both captains have misjudged and neither opponent is in the other’s broadside.

    Name:  13.jpg
Views: 57
Size:  112.4 KB

    Courageuse springs another two points to starboard as Saratoga tries to headreach her, and almost succeeds. Saratoga gets off a full broadside while Courageuse can only fire from the bow arc.

    Name:  14.jpg
Views: 65
Size:  176.2 KB

    The smoke from the broadsides lingers as Saratoga luffs up, preparing to give the larboard battery a turn…

    Name:  15.jpg
Views: 56
Size:  111.4 KB

  2. #2
    Admiral of the Blue.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    16,387
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    A very neat system Dobbs. I intend to adopt it in preferment to my somewhat ad hoc system which we just mackled up on the spur of the moment for our Bomb Ketches.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  3. #3
    Midshipman
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    408
    Name
    Jason

    Default

    Nice. Springing was key to the American victory at the Battle of Plattsburgh on Lake Champlain.

  4. #4
    Vice Admiral of the Red.
    Admiral
    UK

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Norfolk
    Log Entries
    6,341
    Name
    David

    Default

    A very creative solution to the problem, Dobbs!

  5. #5
    Admiral of the Blue.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    16,387
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Well done Dave.
    Just made me realize that I had not Repped Dobbs for his excellent game modification idea.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  6. #6
    Ordinary Seaman
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Karlstad
    Log Entries
    40
    Name
    Andrew

    Default

    Thank you Dobbs for another well-thought-out house-rule!

    I have been considering a way to allow for lateral movement as well as rotational, to somehow be able to represent warping or kedging. I suspect that you might already have this in the works and I'm sure other members have considered or have house-rules for warping/kedging. I know that Bligh has suggested one way of handling it: https://sailsofglory.org/showthread....hlight=warping

    Adding to your springing rules, perhaps one could simply allow for some lateral movement up to some distance, in addition to the rotation?

    I've also been wondering if the standard manoeuvre cards could be used. They could be placed on one of the sides of a ship's base: bow, stern, port or starboard. On the ships sides it could be placed in line with the central mast or central firing dot, for bow or stern as normal. The ship could then be moved using the "backing sails" movement arc up to the orange marker. I've no idea if this motion would be representative of what was actually possible and if the distances are reasonable. Also, I guess that in theory movement diagonally without rotation should be possible, though probably difficult to achieve in reality.

    I was also wondering about the terms "warping", "kedging" (and "springing"). The Wikipedia entry on warping appears to be synonymous with kedging (and some other texts online). The OED defines warping as a manoeuvre using a fixed point ashore while kedging as a manoeuvre using an anchor.

  7. #7
    Admiral of the Blue.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    16,387
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Dobbs is a fountain of knowledge Andrew, and as such I hope that he can help me out with the sailing characteristics of Gun boats and Galleys, several of which I have just aquired for my Barbary fleet.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  8. #8
    1st Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    1,233
    Blog Entries
    13
    Name
    Dobbs

    Default

    Thank you, gentlemen, for the rep and compliments!

    Andrew, the way I define warping is the crew handling a vessel with lines, often using pilings as the fixed point. This is more a harbour thing, so I never really considered house rules for it.. as an aside, Suzanne and I warp customers' boats fairly regularly. Using leverage and knowledge of the wind and tide can often be faster than using the engine in a marina.

    Kedging is using the anchor as a fixed point for moving the boat, with no spring. I have used it to become ungrounded, but in shallow water (less than say 100 feet deep) it can also be used as a way to move when becalmed. I don't think it has a place tactically in SoG because it's slow relative to turn, but I may have to consider to include it in my Chase Rules. A funny story here; in a sailboat race on a dark windless night, I was able to move into 1st place by anchoring while still having the sails set. As the current swept my opponent past me, he called over and said, "where are you finding this wind!?" I waited until he was well astern before I told him I was anchored.

    Rob, I'll get back to you on the gunboats. Their handling under oars is probably very similar to the Demologos under steam and it's about time I finish that project. I've got two great battles planned.

  9. #9
    Ordinary Seaman
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Karlstad
    Log Entries
    40
    Name
    Andrew

    Default

    I can understand that kedging would be rarely employed in battle. Interesting though to consider it for your chase rules (for example, when the Consitution escaping from a Royal Navy squadron).

    I noted that warping and kedging have quite specific meanings in sailing today. However, if the term "warping" is used correctly, it was apparently used tactically during the Battle of Algeciras Bay (1801). I first read about it in Patrick O'Brian's novel "Master and Commander", an author known for doing his homework. The Wikipedia entry on the battle also uses the term and both sides used it during the battle in light wind. Though like with kedging as you wrote, it seemed to have its limitations, since the French commander eventually issued orders for the ships to be cut loose so that they would run aground rather than be captured by the Royal Navy.

    The Manual of Seamanship for Boys and Seamen of the Royal Navy, 1883, seems to suggest that kedging and warping might be separate but related terms:
    "Laying the kedge anchor out in a boat and warping ahead to it"
    (Though I found this reference on a blog and haven't checked the original source).

    It is, of course, hard to search online for more information on the term. As soon as one searches for "warp" and "ship" one mostly gets other results... "warp" and "sailing" mostly gets the modern sailing term. I'm not bothered enough to sift through all this or come up with better search terms.

    I liked your funny story! I wonder how far your competitor might have drifted in the current had you not told him?!

  10. #10
    Admiral of the Blue.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    16,387
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Looking forward to seeing your battles Dobbs.
    I like your annecdote about the sail boat race. Reminds me about the time I held an Iron gate to a walled garden single handed against a whole Regiment of Highlanders.
    Standing inside the archway and appearing to brace my Halberd against the gate when the mob of Scots threw themselves against it. They just kept slinging in more and more bodies for a good five minutes until an Officer fought his way to the front to see what was going on and delaying them from flanking our army. He swiftly realized that I could not possibly be holding back the mass of men, but his hand through the bars and unlatched the gate.
    Needless to say, I was long gone as the irrate highlanders surged through the open gate, only to be met wth a counter charge from my own Regiment who had now reinforced our flank and were not tired by pushing at a locked gate. I must have felt much as you did after your opponent realized he had been tricked.
    The only time we have used the kedge option was when Captain Kiwi sailed between two sandbanks and saw the shore looming with no room to come about. He had to anchor, and kedge back out from between the sand bar before he could get underway. Raffer J Larwood please note that this is an alternative to driving ashore at every chance you get!
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  11. #11
    1st Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    1,233
    Blog Entries
    13
    Name
    Dobbs

    Default

    I would go with what your seamanship manual describes. Warping is moving the boat with ropes, whether the ropes are attached to a piling or a kedge anchor.

    I checked in "Master and Commander", and O'Brien mentions that the French have cables affixed to the shore to warp closer in. I imagine that initially, they were easing their anchor rodes while taking up on the shore lines. It was only after the command to ground the ships that they cut their rodes so that the ships would ground bow first and protect the rudders.

  12. #12
    Admiral of the Blue.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    16,387
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    That certainly makes sense Dobbs. It explains the situation very well. My use of the term Kedging may now have to be amended to Kedging and warping.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  13. #13
    Ordinary Seaman
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Karlstad
    Log Entries
    40
    Name
    Andrew

    Default

    Thanks for the explanations, Dobbs. I feel that I now have a slightly better grasp of the these terms!

    At Algeciras, I wonder how much control the French had over the direction of their ships? With shore lines and anchor rodes would it have been possible to control the rotation of the ship while pulling it closer to the shore? I am guessing that, at least in theory, it would be possible to take in one shore line more than the other in order to rotate the ship. Though, I guess in reality it would be extremely hard to simultaneously ease up the right amount on the anchor rodes and the ship would be subject to the effects of wind and current.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •