Results 1 to 38 of 38

Thread: Prepainted quality of different waves/ships?

  1. #1
    Stats Committee
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,943
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default Prepainted quality of different waves/ships?

    Anybody else got a badly painted ship in the later batches?

    Name:  04EB9E24-EFD7-43FC-AA22-5AA61B6BB0DF.jpg
Views: 386
Size:  120.9 KB

    Name:  7280D28F-D9C1-4A21-94B9-0122656425DA.jpg
Views: 414
Size:  132.2 KB

  2. #2
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    I did notice some of the black paint on the fighting tops missing on a couple of mine Jonas.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  3. #3
    Stats Committee
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,943
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    I wish I only had that. The black on the lower part of the hull looks like the painter was drunk.

    I thought that the hulls were printed, not painted. I thought we were safe from buying child labour. How is the situation in China in this regard?

  4. #4
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Just shows how out of touch I am. I thought they were sprayed by a robot using an airbrush.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  5. #5
    Ordinary Seaman
    United States

    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    wa
    Log Entries
    30
    Name
    Michael

    Default

    I wonder if unpainted models would have been a better idea? Cheaper to produce and easier for us to modify.

    I can imagine buying blank 74s by the dozen and customizing them as needed.

  6. #6
    Captain of the Fleet
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South Glos
    Log Entries
    2,221
    Name
    Chris

    Default

    I noticed haphazard painting in wave two onwards, I had to retouch up the hulls on a few of my first rates as well as the Victory.
    Masts are now only painted , it seems , at the tips rest is a touch on the mast tip and the rear facing and bottom

  7. #7
    Admiral. R.I.P.
    Admiral
    UK

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Norfolk
    Log Entries
    6,691
    Name
    David

    Default

    Did Ares switch manufacturers?

  8. #8
    Stats Committee
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,943
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    Just shows how out of touch I am. I thought they were sprayed by a robot using an airbrush.
    Rob.
    That's what I meant by "printed". Basically an ink printer able to print a 3D surface.

    My second wave first rates have been first rate. They have the same look as the first wave of ships. My two Victories are very well painted (before I started).

    My other Spanish ships were much better painted, but I could see that they are hand painted as there were some much smaller mistakes there too. As long as it's not child labour I don't mind as long as it's well done. This Mahonesa is really awful.
    Last edited by TexaS; 06-14-2018 at 23:32.

  9. #9
    Stats Committee
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,943
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge View Post
    I wonder if unpainted models would have been a better idea? Cheaper to produce and easier for us to modify.

    I can imagine buying blank 74s by the dozen and customizing them as needed.
    I think that that they are prepainted has appeal and gives them a niche in the market that they otherwise wouldn't have.

  10. #10
    Able Seaman
    United States

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Idaho
    Log Entries
    69
    Name
    Richard

    Default

    My Bonhomme Richard needs some touching up where red paint bleeds down onto the black portion of the hull. Minor touch up of a really annoying area is all that's needed at this point.

  11. #11
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge View Post
    I wonder if unpainted models would have been a better idea? Cheaper to produce and easier for us to modify.

    I can imagine buying blank 74s by the dozen and customizing them as needed.
    I think Jonas is right here Michael. It is a bit of a juggling act. Do you pander to the many who can't or won't do repaints, and those who just don't have time and wish to play straight out of the box, or the few who will buy a lot of ships to convert. Let us be honest here, the few of us will still buy a lot and then repaint them. How many of us are put off by the fact we need to repaint? Most of us have been doing it for most of our lives.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  12. #12
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    The big draw for the game is, as with "Wings..." the "play out of the box" aspect. Selling unpainted minis would have left the game in a similar position to existing 1/1200 AoS ranges (albeit without the need to assemble which for some is a pain in the backside). I doubt it would have got off the ground.

  13. #13
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Totally agree Dave.
    You have put very succinctly what I was trying to say in my roundabout fashion.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  14. #14
    Stats Committee
    Master & Commander
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    1,988
    Blog Entries
    13
    Name
    Dobbs

    Default

    A few years back, I had suggested to Ares that they offer unpainted and unassembled minis in addition to the painted ones, but they thought it would not be profitable.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TexaS View Post
    ... I thought we were safe from buying child labour. How is the situation in China in this regard?

    Handpainted - yes, I think so.

    But I won't blame child labour for this ugly paintjob.

  16. #16
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    A few years back, I had suggested to Ares that they offer unpainted and unassembled minis in addition to the painted ones, but they thought it would not be profitable.
    Could have had the best of both worlds Dobbs.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  17. #17
    Able Seaman
    United States

    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Iowa
    Log Entries
    86
    Name
    Steve

    Default

    It seems to me that it’s just luck of the draw who painted the miniature you purchase. I’ve had two ships of the same wave, one with a really sharp paint job and the other requiring a total repaint due to smears of black all over the upperworks...really poor workmanship, but when you consider that you are paying less than $20 for a miniature, base, maneuver cards and ship log I guess they are still pretty good value.

  18. #18
    Captain of the Fleet
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South Glos
    Log Entries
    2,221
    Name
    Chris

    Default

    Well thats subjective Steve, here in UK we dont pay $20 per model, unless you find a sale the minimum for a third rate is between £20 -£25 wich is between $26 -$30+ so if bying a couple of ships we now talking $60 as a minimum not an insubstantial sum.
    So getting the base and deck mat does not become a good value if you have to repaint or touch up when the philosophy is to play out from the box.
    I agree it seems to be pot luck with paint job and I personally repaint the spars and masts on my ships
    Of course there are bargains to be had as I recently found.

  19. #19
    Stats Committee
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,943
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    Even I who repaint ships were drawn to the kickstarter by the concept of prepainted miniatures.

    Normally I just paint the sails, spars and masts. That's not something I thought I would do early on. Then I painted the spars and masts and realized how much better that looked. Then I did a mess and to cover it painted the sails and thought that also did a real difference. Now I usually do that and rig them too. What I show off here on the other hand is mostly those that has gone through more of a work over.
    Last edited by TexaS; 06-18-2018 at 23:25.

  20. #20
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    I tend to just do the essentials which often includes the masts. I have toyed with rigging, but with well over 100 ships it is a daunting task. If I had started with them from the beginning I would not have balked at it so much. Now, however, I am locked into my storage system which precludes my rigging the ships.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  21. #21
    Stats Committee
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,943
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    Just counted them. 64 painted and rigged ships, which is probably about half. Somehow there always seems like I'm missing ships anyway. I thought the other day that I liked the french 64, even though it's a merchant with all the guns, and wanted to fix, paint up and rig another. Turns out I only have one.

  22. #22
    Captain of the Fleet
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South Glos
    Log Entries
    2,221
    Name
    Chris

    Default

    Most of my SOL now rigged though not as detailed as you do Jonas, still a number of frigates to complete

  23. #23
    Able Seaman
    United States

    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Iowa
    Log Entries
    86
    Name
    Steve

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Capn Duff View Post
    Well thats subjective Steve, here in UK we dont pay $20 per model, unless you find a sale the minimum for a third rate is between £20 -£25 wich is between $26 -$30+ so if bying a couple of ships we now talking $60 as a minimum not an insubstantial sum.
    So getting the base and deck mat does not become a good value if you have to repaint or touch up when the philosophy is to play out from the box.
    I agree it seems to be pot luck with paint job and I personally repaint the spars and masts on my ships
    Of course there are bargains to be had as I recently found.
    If I had to pay that much for them, I’d be playing something else, that’s crazy, though not unexpected. UK prices are ridiculous for just about everything. (I know ‘cos I go back there every couple of years). On the other hand our healthcare costs are a joke. (Not a very funny one).
    Last edited by Bilge Rat; 06-17-2018 at 10:36.

  24. #24
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    I can actually buy ships from the States and providing they slip through customs, they are cheaper even with the postage than those bought here. The Oberst and Miniature Market even deliver faster than most of the stores in this country. The exception to this being Green Knight who usually deliver within two days.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  25. #25
    Able Seaman
    United States

    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Iowa
    Log Entries
    86
    Name
    Steve

    Default

    I get 99% of my SoG and WoG from Miniature Market. They are pretty cheap and they arrive within 2-3 days.

  26. #26
    Stats Committee
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,943
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    Chris, I'm impressed by your tenasity and speed of painting and rigging your ships. I'll get there, eventually…

    I also buy from MM. My last shipment took a little over three months.
    The Swedish Royal Post was privatized and the resulting PostNord is awful! Probably went from one of the best in the world to one of the worst and most expensive. It's not privatization but the monopoly position combined with the old government bureaucracy that really makes it bad.

  27. #27
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    That is appalling Jonas. I really feel for you. next time I start complaining about Parcel Farce just remind me how much worse your service is.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  28. #28
    Stats Committee
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,943
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    I realized that my drive to paint the Spanish ships is really low. That's 12 ships that might not ever be painted, and it's not just the scale creep but actually to have to change the official stats to make the ships even vaguely historical is very off-putting. I really hope Ares will straigthen up if they do another wave.

    Do anyone know if they have any plans? They said they wanted all ships for Trafalgar. Do they think what we have is good enough? The most obvious missing ship to me would be the British 98.

    Where do we stand on the "What would we like next" question?

  29. #29
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Captain Duff has done a lot of work on the stats of all the ships for Trafalgar, so he may be able to help with the problem Jonas.
    The British 98s seems to be an obvious choice for several similar moulds.
    I am sure that DB has done a lot of work looking at the most common ship types still to produce.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  30. #30
    Stats Committee
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,943
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    It's not giving them stats, but that I have to use inofficial stats instead of Ares stats that I find troubling.
    I don't mind fudging some general rule or making up stats for a missing ship. It's the disqualification of the official rules of all ships of one side that gives me a bad taste.

    I've found that the balance between English and French have been unusually good, placing quality of the seamen in the ships cards. For the Spanish all cards in the game can't compensate for the very strange values.

    But for a full wave we need another three ships.

  31. #31
    Captain of the Fleet
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South Glos
    Log Entries
    2,221
    Name
    Chris

    Default

    Hi Jonas, I have done some work with the Spanish Trafalgar fleet so hope this helps.
    I have done a reprint of the ship mats reducing by 1 the values for the Spanish Triple deckers which I can send you if you om me your email, they are sized and ready to be printed out. The only thing being they have my marking system on so you will have to cover over that.

    Ship wise I have used Peter Goodwins book The ships of Trafalgar as a base and if we are prepared to accept the Ares Bahama model, yes it is incorrectly sized, but we can use this and the other Spanish 74 to give us all the ships as the sizes differ little according to the source book.
    So I have used this a a base for all the ships, for the Spanish 64 I have taken the Bahama stats and reduced by 1 and for the Montanes 80s taken the higher base stats and left alone.
    Not perfect but they work and only ourselves will know. Depends if you are prepared to accept the Bahama as a base.
    I believe Clipper is still looking at doing a remodel of the Santa Anna which should give the Spanish three deckers a boost.

    As I say not perfect but the San Justo and San Leandro all have similar specs and seem to have been built similar to Bahama model so really its up to you .
    If you want all the Spanish ships reduced that is an ingoing project I have set myself except real life is hampering things currently.
    But if I can help in anyway to give me a shout
    Last edited by Capn Duff; 06-19-2018 at 06:01.

  32. #32
    Captain of the Fleet
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South Glos
    Log Entries
    2,221
    Name
    Chris

    Default

    For the Brit 98’s I have used the Royal Sov model and used the lower based stats, seems to have worked

  33. #33
    Stats Committee
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,943
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    The difference between the British 2nd rates and the 1st rates were often if that individual ship had added or removed a few guns. Not a very big deal, stat-wise. Not terrible model-wise either, but I would like to have a model (in scale).

    The Spanish should really be compared broadside weight to broadside weight with all the previous British and French ships. An 80 gun ship should basically have the same values as a 74 with the same calibre guns, only a little slower degrading with damage. If you look at the damage span between the British 1st rates and the French 74s you have a very small span to fit an 80 gun ship.

    If the new values aren't researched and well motivated I wouldn't feel I could discard Ares values. I don't think "a little less wrong" is good enough to divert from Rules As Written. That is my main problem with all the Spanish and a bit with the 64s.

  34. #34
    Captain of the Fleet
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South Glos
    Log Entries
    2,221
    Name
    Chris

    Default

    Good points Jonas and I understand your points.
    We all agree the Spanish are poor compared to the earlier British and French.
    I intend to go through the fleets and compare the broadside weight to get some perspective, the only problem I have is limited info on the Spanish but I will use what unfo I have and post the comparison at a later date
    Last edited by Capn Duff; 06-19-2018 at 15:57.

  35. #35
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    You must be getting faster at typing Chris. Your t9 and ge5 are very reminiscent of some of the stuff I'm typing as I get faster. I'm either hitting an adjacent key or more than one at a time.
    Last reply I made I signed off Riob.

    It is good fun looking to see what people really mean to say though.
    Rob.
    Last edited by Bligh; 06-20-2018 at 00:42.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  36. #36
    Stats Committee
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,943
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    You are very much right Chris. Time and good sources are always in demand.

    And to remember when a comparison is actually made to make sure what unit the caliber is in. Swedish "pund" or "skålpund" isn't the same as the Russian or British. If I remember correctly a Swedish 24 lb gun would be 22 lb in British and the Russian are heavier than the British. I can't remember how heavy the Spanish pound is right now. If you can get weights in kg, it's preferable.

  37. #37
    Captain of the Fleet
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South Glos
    Log Entries
    2,221
    Name
    Chris

    Default

    Sorry Rob, finger trouble now been edited.
    Jonas yes understand the difference in weights I shall try to convert to make the data usable

  38. #38
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    No worries Chris.
    I just found another of mine from some time back.
    The stats I have checked for the French and British guns seem to fit very well to your changes Chris.
    As for the Spanish fleet all I can go on are the Trafalgar ships and those captured by the British.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •