The Santissima Trinidad Build

[Clipper1701]

Greetings! In the down time of my health I determined to do something different, it has been over a year since I opened my SOG boxes and found the mention of the Santissima Trinidad. Big and over gunned it has a lure of her own so here we go. I thought my personal naval library was lacking, but I found I was wrong. Here's the findings of the library elves:



Several side views, lots of text, it appears she was painted dark red with white stripes . . . and a great cuttaway pullout, quite large and well detailed



A remarkable model kit is available at around $300-$400! Won't be making that purchase, however the web add has some interesting photos and drawings which the elves feel are sufficient, especially at 1/1000" scale!



More details . . .



Then some enticing drawings



Stern concerns . . . . in a famous painting:



Then the kit version . . .





So now to the numbers . . . Our Orient 1791 is 213' long which is 2.556" at our scale, the mini measures 2.625" at the waterline (excluding front spar and stern overhang - not sure how these things are measured . . . . ) The Santissima Trinidad is 200' long, which comes out 2.4" in our scale. Pretty close in my book. I can make the difference up on the new hull, but most of the Orient translates into a good start. Top deck needs much rework, so the elves have a start . . . will need more input on the stern. So the elves are off and swimming! Any input would be appreciated! The goal is a new hull plug which I will create a mold from and will be pouring the resin . . . . knees cooperating that is!

[Capn Duff]

I eagerly watch this for your interpretation and the elves ship building. Go for it Dave

[Bligh]

One thing we can be certain about Chris. it will be as accurate as anything Dave can discover, and won't have some Richard Cranium bodge the sizes up!
Rob.

[Bligh]

This is a Spanish interpretation of the reproduction Square rigged ship "Santisima Trindad" alongside Malaga quayside.Spain. this is the 1751 version according to the video clip. the straight sided stern seems to be this ships one.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cejJFP_D80c

Rob.

[Bligh]

This very full build of a model also has the square ended stern configuration!


https://shipsofscale.com/Trinidad/STBL24.html

Rob.

[Clipper1701]

This very full build of a model also has the square ended stern configuration!


https://shipsofscale.com/Trinidad/STBL24.html

Rob.

Nice find, this is a build log of the kit in question, it is not a model of the replica : ) : (

[Clipper1701]

Thanks, I watched the video as well, it's a nice replica, but not very accurate in many details, apparently built for commercial purposes verses historical accuracy. The model seems to bridge the two extremes. My search has come up with a dozen different museum models with few consistencies. The early painting intrigues me, however the decks cannot be that cambered . . . Where is Diamondback when we need him? Still researching . . .

[Clipper1701]

Thanks! And Yikes! Quite a bit of fun there, it is interesting the non standard measures of the day, just read up on the Vasa where it was deadly. For our tiny scale we are talking mm in difference! I appreciate your research!

[Nightmoss]

Hi David, I saw this thread and wanted to comment as the ST was (and still is) one of my favorite ships from the Napoleonic Age of Sail. Several years back I built the Langton version of the Santisima and then followed it up with a repaint and kitbash of the Sails of Glory Orient. See threads below if you're interested.

https://www.sailsofglory.org/showthr...isima+trinidad

https://www.sailsofglory.org/showthr...isima+trinidad

With the revelations we've learned concerning scale and it's accuracy over the course of 4 Waves of ships I most likely would not have used the Orient as it's too large. Unfortunately the ships I would have used (the Merigildos from Wave 3) are not scale accurate either and are too small.

Setting aside all discussion of accuracy and focusing on what would look and feel table right I'd probably go back and use a SoG Victory sculpt and kit bash it so it matches the look of the Langton ST. There are plenty of them to use and I found them easy to work with when kitbashing the USS Independence https://www.sailsofglory.org/showthr...s+independence.

If Ares ever does the Santisima Trinidad I'll have to pick it up even though I have no idea how they'll address the scale differences we know exist between all of the ship waves and the special edition Constitution? Cheers.

[Nightmoss]

Dave, you might find this interesting as well. A scratch build Radio Controlled ST in 1/50 scale?

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...scratch)-(1-50)

[TexaS]

I really do hope Ares makes a Santissima and in 1:1000 instead. I would see if that would be possible to cut down to a Meregildos.

That model posted in the first post has a forecastle. From what I've read she didn't. (...more than her original that was continued all the way back.) Anyone got any more information on that?

[Bligh]

Don't know Jonas. I am at a stand.
The more I research the more contradictions I find.
Short of getting the Spanish Admiralty plans for the conversion I can't see any way forward.
I may end up just copying Jim's interpretation. At least that way tow of us will be in agreement.
Rob.

[TexaS]

Not really, Rob. Read his post above. #10

The Océan really is too big. It’s About 5mm too long and too wide. The problem is as Jim wrote, that there should have been Meregildos that had been perfekt to rebuild as was done, but lets not go there again. I agree with Jim that right now a conversion of a British first rate probably is the best starting point. Not sure I’d use HMS Victory or one of the others though.

[Bligh]

I have a spare Victory, and also Queen Charlotte plus Royal Sov spare at the moment, but am not happy with which if any would look best. They all have bits that look wrong and none are 2.4 inches long either.
Rob.

[Nightmoss]

I have a spare Victory, and also Queen Charlotte plus Royal Sov spare at the moment, but am not happy with which if any would look best. They all have bits that look wrong and none are 2.4 inches long either.
Rob.

lol. You should do it Rob. I put most of my SoG stuff in semi storage, but there's an HMS Queen Charlotte just sitting on the workbench. Do I really need 3 versions of the Santisima Trinidad? ;) Probably not.

[Clipper1701]

. . . after the weekend I should have a hull plug for your critique. 2.4" long at the waterline, 0.65" beam . . . rounded fantail, no forecastle, then after your input I will finalize the plug and begin the production . . . when I say "I" I mean the sea elves . . . do we have a definitive height of the top center deck from the waterline? Oh this just in, 2 or 4 anchors?

[Bligh]

You are certainly moving on this Clipper.
I am still undecided on what to do. Nevertheless whatever I decide I'm still up for one of yours.
Rob.

[Nightmoss]

. . . after the weekend I should have a hull plug for your critique. 2.4" long at the waterline, 0.65" beam . . . rounded fantail, no forecastle, then after your input I will finalize the plug and begin the production . . . when I say "I" I mean the sea elves . . . do we have a definitive height of the top center deck from the waterline? Oh this just in, 2 or 4 anchors?

Every iteration of the Santisima I've seen has four anchors. Langton's version I did I only used 3 from GHQ's line of 1/1200 ships.

[TexaS]

I'd just get one from Clipper and if I can I will.

[Bligh]

I agree Jonas.
I still have all these spare ships to butcher though. I have to keep working on something.
Rob.

[Nightmoss]

I agree Jonas.
I still have all these spare ships to butcher though. I have to keep working on something.
Rob.

You could always go for the Duke of Kent? ;)

[Nightmoss]

I'd just get one from Clipper and if I can I will.

I will as well. I could be six feet under by the time Ares gets its act together.

[Bligh]

I will as well. I could be six feet under by the time Ares gets its act together.

Funny that Jim. I said very much the same thing to Mrs Bligh the other day.
Rob.

[Nightmoss]

Funny that Jim. I said very much the same thing to Mrs Bligh the other day.
Rob.

Jonas probably has the better approach, but I had considered doing HMS Caledonia at one point. It did have a career that went beyond the Napoleonic Wars. It was also cut down and renamed the Dreadnought I believe (a hospital ship).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Caledonia_(1808)

[Bligh]

Might take a look at Caledonia, and a couple of the 98s for my other two.
That will give me plenty to do after I complete my two small Merchantmen.
Rob.

[TexaS]

Rob, I'd start thinking British second rate, 98 gun ships...

[Bligh]

Could have a good point there Jonas.
I could also be six feet under before Ares get around to those too.

Rob.

[Capn Duff]

I used some Royal Sovreign's for the British Second rates, This from some of DB info.

Jim can you compare your Langton Santissima with a Ares Meregildos is there much difference in size?

I am looking forward to seeing Clippers Santissima but have another Meregildos lying in drydock waiting.
Already have some spare masts and sails from the old Skytrex Triton range

[Bligh]

Did you have to make many adjustments to them Chris?
Rob.

[Capn Duff]

Did you have to make many adjustments to them Chris?
Rob.

Hi Rob, the Triton range come with seperate white metal masts and then you have to glue the sails , also white metal, to the mast.
You can also get furled sails already attached to mast for harbours. Quite cheap too.
But they dont do ratlines.
You can still get these from Red Eagle miniatures, Triton age of sail

[Bligh]

Hi Rob, the Triton range come with seperate white metal masts and then you have to glue the sails , also white metal, to the mast.
You can also get furled sails already attached to mast for harbours. Quite cheap too.
But they dont do ratlines.
You can still get these from Red Eagle miniatures, Triton age of sail

Thanks Chris. I will have a look at these too.
Any pictures of you completed 90s would be useful.
Rob.

[Bligh]

Sorry about this Dave we seem to have partially hijacked your thread on Santissima.
Rob.

[Nightmoss]

I used some Royal Sovreign's for the British Second rates, This from some of DB info.

Jim can you compare your Langton Santissima with a Ares Meregildos is there much difference in size?

I am looking forward to seeing Clippers Santissima but have another Meregildos lying in drydock waiting.
Already have some spare masts and sails from the old Skytrex Triton range

Not sure this will work for you Chris, but page 3 of this thread is where I compared the Langton Santa Ana and the Ares version.

https://www.sailsofglory.org/showthr...ght=wave+scale

Apologies Dave, we keep hijacking your thread.

[TexaS]

To my memory, other than on how gun ports start in order from the bow, the lines of the British first rates are actually HMS Victory's and the model Victory's lines are actually the second rates. The second rates had originally no guns on the quarter deck but I think they were 90:s back then. By adding the quarter deck guns they became 98 gun ships and very close to the British first rates.

[Clipper1701]

A quick peek of the hull conversion plug thingy, Guns before sizing . . .



After sizing . . .



Ready to prime, tomorrow the latex arrives . . .

[Bligh]

Any chance of a straight side on view to show where the new line of guns go in. Have you raised the sides Dave ?
Rob.

[Nightmoss]

A quick peek of the hull conversion plug thingy, Guns before sizing . . .



After sizing . . .



Ready to prime, tomorrow the latex arrives . . .

Looking pretty neat!

[Clipper1701]

Cut down the Orient hull, .125" out of the center making the beam .65" then .1875 out of the length for an overall waterline length of 2.4" . . .

[Capn Duff]

Getting back on topic, Dave do you have access to a copy of The Ships of Trafalgar by Peter Goodwin ?
This has a Side aelevation plan. Of the Sntissima as well as a section giving dimensions

[Clipper1701]

A few views of her so far

[Capn Duff]

Nicely done Dave, I have never done casting like you do seemingly do with ease.
Not wanting to cast a downer here but I understood that Santisima didnt have a Poop deck as such, or have I missunderstood ?
The model has a pronounced Poop deck, what say you chaps

[Nightmoss]

Nicely done Dave, I have never done casting like you do seemingly do with ease.
Not wanting to cast a downer here but I understood that Santisima didnt have a Poop deck as such, or have I missunderstood ?
The model has a pronounced Poop deck, what say you chaps

Langton's version does have a Poop deck, but it's not very pronounced. Here's Julian's build thread for a visual.

https://www.sailsofglory.org/showthr...=700+santisima

Julian also posted some preliminary work on the Meridian version of the Santisima on his HMS Victory thread (go all the way towards the bottom to see it). Meridian's version is very different but there's still a Poop deck.

https://www.sailsofglory.org/showthr...coat+santisima

[Capn Duff]

Fine then Jim , I am quite happy to be corrected and take onboard your comments.
Ignor what I said Dave, carry on matey. Look forward to seeing more. What you using for masts and sails ?

[David Manley]

There is a raised quarterdeck, but the bulwarks forward of it are quite high, hence it is not readily apparent. If you add bulwarks between the quarterdeck structure and the forward bulkhead that are the same height as that bulkhead it'll be just about perfect

[Clipper1701]

So here we are . . . thanks for all the comments and suggestions, added a strip to the bullwarks and poured the latex, here is the process of the resurrection of the Santissima Trinidad according to the elves of Arizona:



. . . the hull begins to emerge from the latex box . . .



. . . and we have a hull mold!



. . . now to the casting station, Alumilite products are great (shameless plug) . . .



. . . the first of the many . ..



. . . you can see the resin setting, it turns light tan from dark brown . ..



. . . 10 minutes later . . . we have a new baby hull!!!!!!



. . . so here we are, what do you think?









PM me for details if you want one, I will have to wait a few days to clean one up and get the elves to paint and finish one. I will use the sails from the Orient corpse for the first one, but I have news from the elves they have plans for some resin sails and masts . . . they are sure clever! Cheers!

[Dobbs]

So here we are . . . thanks for all the comments and suggestions, added a strip to the bullwarks and poured the latex, here is the process of the resurrection of the Santissima Trinidad according to the elves of Arizona:



. . . the hull begins to emerge from the latex box . . .



. . . and we have a hull mold!



. . . now to the casting station, Alumilite products are great (shameless plug) . . .



. . . the first of the many . ..



. . . you can see the resin setting, it turns light tan from dark brown . ..



. . . 10 minutes later . . . we have a new baby hull!!!!!!



. . . so here we are, what do you think?









PM me for details if you want one, I will have to wait a few days to clean one up and get the elves to paint and finish one. I will use the sails from the Orient corpse for the first one, but I have news from the elves they have plans for some resin sails and masts . . . they are sure clever! Cheers!

Hi Dave, I'd like to try this casting technique of yours. Where do you get your materials?

[Bligh]

Just reminded me that mine is still on the stocks Dobbs.
Sails and masts put in place but still those black lines to paint around the hull.
I would love to follow you in your endeavors at casting some ships.
Rob.

[Capn Duff]

Looks good Dave, I marvel all the time at the work you and the elves do. Hope this was not too taxing, we need your health to be in the pink. Pm on its way

[Bligh]

Phenomenal Dave.
Rob.

[Nightmoss]

Dave, that's really impressive!! I have used Alumilite several times in the past and really like their products. If you don't mind explaining, how do you create the latex box so you can cast an entire hull, deck, etc? I've been able to cast hulls, but not the entire ship. PM on the way as well. Thanks!