Challenging The Ideas of Sailing

[The Mad Hatter]

Sam Willis wrote a paper that challenges some of the commonly accepted knowledge on sailing (mostly square rigged ships). I thought it was an interesting read.

http://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_ma...13_4_29-39.pdf

One of the things that somewhat seemed out of place in SoG is that some of the ships when close hauled are sailing too close to the wind. It seems generally accepted by many who are more an expert than I, that the closest a square rigged ship can sail is six points from the wind direction (so a wind coming from the N, close hauling would be at best ENE or WNW for those familiar with the mariners compass). Looking at the red indicators on many SoG ships, they are sailing much closer to the wind than ENE or WNW.

A minor issue, I play the game for fun, not for an exact simulation of sailing (which is extremely more complex than just compass directions). It still captures the general "feel" of sailing, even if we've got ships that are sailing much closer to the wind than they should.

For those that want a deeper look into some of the nuances of sailing our little ships in real life, it's worth a read.

[David Manley]

Sailing arcs are wider, gunnery arcs are wider. It was all discussed during playtesting as I recall, they are that way to make the game play faster and easier.

[The Mad Hatter]

Yes, that's why I thought to add - I play the game for fun, not to be nit picky on this stuff. However I do very much appreciate and enjoy understanding how things "really" were in this period of naval warfare, even if not looking for everything to be replicated in my gaming.

[Bligh]

A very interesting little treatise Ryan.
For my own use I have Dave to thank for a very erudite book concerning all things to do with sailing.

Seamanship in the age of sail by John Harland ISBN 0-85177-179-3.

I would recommend this to anyone seriously interested in the minutia of the workings of a sailing vessel of the period.

Rob.

[Killick]

Thanks Rob sounds good to me I will have to get a copy and have a read.

[The Mad Hatter]

Yes, Harland's Seamanship in the Age of Sail is quite comprehensive - if there were a "one book to own" on the subject of sailing a square rigged ship, this would be it!

[TexaS]

And while we're at it...

My experience with sailing a 1850ies brig is that the red part is too small and the orange part are too big. We sailed almost as fast close hauled as broad reached. I'm not sure if we being a more modern vessel could turn the yards further. Tre Kronor do have a much more modern steel hull though.

[Bligh]

I expect that this is another aspect of the game on which we will never get a consensus. Having only modern day data, and old accounts on which to base our conclusions we can only try a best guess. This is another case of if only we had a time machine.
Rob.

[Killick]

I am lucky about 10 years ago my eldest son did a trip on the "Young Endevor" from Hobart to Sydney so has more than the rest of us as far as sailing the ships around.

[CSherrange]

I am going aboard the Niagra for sailing days, I know it is a brig that handles better than the big ships but I am looking forward to learning.

[Bligh]

Do try and get some photos for us Charles, if you can.
Rob.

[Dobbs]

I based my "Tweaked Sailing Angles" cards on the House Rules forum on Harland's book.

Jonas, I have pondered the orange arcs, because a vessel sailing in that range should be able to use the wind more efficiently. I decided to stick with them in my Tweaked Angles for game play (and the thought that maybe square riggers weren't able to sail those angles as efficiently?).

[TexaS]

(and the thought that maybe square riggers weren't able to sail those angles as efficiently?).

A brig is a square rigger. I think the biggest difference is that in 1857 when the original was built much had happened in ship design. I would think that an older square rigger would have more leeway and drag but would still have quite good sailing even when the wind is fore the beam.

[Dobbs]

A brig is a square rigger. I think the biggest difference is that in 1857 when the original was built much had happened in ship design. I would think that an older square rigger would have more leeway and drag but would still have quite good sailing even when the wind is fore the beam.

In developing my revised cards, I treated a brig's sailing angles just like a ship-sloop, and only gave brigantines and schooners better sailing angles. I did ponder getting rid of the orange arcs entirely, because, like you said, Jonas, a square rigger will go pretty darned fast sailing to windward as long as the sails are drawing. They just can't sail a good angle to the wind.

Ultimately, I kept the orange arcs because I thought that it made for better gameplay, and maybe it reflects leeway?

[Killick]

Yes, Harland's Seamanship in the Age of Sail is quite comprehensive - if there were a "one book to own" on the subject of sailing a square rigged ship, this would be it!

I will have to give that one a miss got quoted A$90 when I tried to order it from my local book shop

[TexaS]

...and maybe it reflects leeway?

That is what I started wondering when I wrote my last post. It kind of makes sense from a sailing perspective but perhaps not as much when yardarm to yardarm. Then lee from other ships would be more important, but it is a game not a simulation, so I'm even content with the original arcs.

Good luck to you and have fun!

[CSherrange]

Will do. Not sure of i want to trust my hands with my cell, so it may be old dis[psable and scan the pics up. We wil see