One important question.

[Redcoat]

Hello everyone, I have a doubt about articles of Sail of Glory.
I may sell an item using the design Sail of Glory. For example cards Spanish ships (which are not yet on sale). It would be plagiarism? In breach of copyright?

Thank you for your answers. All opinions are welcome.

Julián

[Nightmoss]

Julian, that's a question for the folks at Ares although I think Keith (The Royal Hajj) could address it as well as he works closely with them.

[Capn Duff]

If it works the same as the Wings, movement decks you cannot make and sell, that is Copyright.
However ships cards can be made as far as I am aware, as long as the ship is not on Ares publication list.
I myself have made cards for a few extra ships I have painted, HMS Shannon, HMS Amazon, America, Timoleon and HMS Resolution to name them.
As these are for personal use the rule may be different, so as Jim above has pointed out try dropping Keith a pm for advice or drop Ares a line.

[David Manley]

Would there be any bar to making your own new manoeuvre decks? I'm guessing not if new ship mats are OK, an we've seen a few of those posted here. There may well be a difference though between making freely available and selling (which I would expect to be verboten)

[Bligh]

As far as I know, making cards for personal use is fine, but distributing them in any way is technically an offense, unless they are not using any recognizable Ares artwork.
Rob.

[Kentop]

There is no such thing as an "international copyright". Protection against unauthorized use in a given country must be filed in the country where the unauthorized infringement occurred. There are treaties between nations that address copyrights but if Ares wants to sue you and you live in England, they have to file their case in english court. Same for the US. If you live in Iran, you can infringe all you want because they haven't signed any treaties concerning copyrights. There are all kinds of treaties between nations and conventions that cover such things. But, unless you are literally stealing money out of Ares pocket in quantities large enough to make a difference, you are pretty safe from lawsuits. Dressing up like a star wars character for ComicCon is copyright infringement. Duplicating a movement deck is, too. But neither Ares nor Disney are going to bite the hands that feed them. Just don't mass produce stuff for resale.

[David Manley]

Especially not if you would be selling to a market that is saturated with those on good terms with the IP holder

[Kentop]

Even if you step over the imaginary line in some lawyers head that you are indeed infringing, I'm sure you would receive a simple cease and desist letter from them first. You aren't going to be blindsided with a court summons.

[garchilajr]

Hola, Julian! Estoy de acuerdo con quienes opinan que si no las produces en cantidades que interfieran con las ventas regulares de ARES, no tendrás ningún problema. Yo juego X-Wing, y hay quienes hacen tarjetas de pilotos y las vended en eBay sin ningún problema. Sin embargo, te recomendaría que les dieras otro nombre que siendo similar, no compita directamente con el titulo de ARES. Por ejemplo, "The Glory of Sail," o "Ships of Glory," o "Sails of War."

Saludos y congratulaciones!

[TexaS]

I've seen what I would guess to be copyright infringement on ebay.

Like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pirate-Sail-...IAAOSwI-BWJ-kW

And here I am, polishing my app for iPhone, thinking of releasing it if I ever get the time to finish it, but once again I get doubts about copyright issues. How much could I use the symbols in the game and how much would players recognize if I redid everything?

[Herkybird]

When I first did a version of the solo rules for Wings of War (that is what it was called then!) - I sent it on to the writer and he helped a lot about copyright.
I could not use any original artwork from the game, but could do my own versions of manoeuvre cards etc.

I definitely think you are free to do whatever you like for personal use, as it would be impossible to police, and I don't think it really bothers companies that much.

Apart from this, I agree completely with the comments above regarding copyright.

[Redcoat]

I will not make these items and will not sell any article that violates the laws of copyright because I do not want problems.
I'm going only to sell original products made for the author. My personal view on this is that behind a game design there are many hours to then dedicate themselves to use the work for profit. Respect

[Herkybird]

I will not make these items and will not sell any article that violates the laws of copyright because I do not want problems.
I'm going only to sell original products made for the author. My personal view on this is that behind a game design there are many hours to then dedicate themselves to use the work for profit. Respect

That is a very safe and respectful approach. A good rule is that if it has no financial effect on a publisher, and their artwork and ideas are not plagiarised, you are generally safe.

[Redcoat]

Hola, Julian! Estoy de acuerdo con quienes opinan que si no las produces en cantidades que interfieran con las ventas regulares de ARES, no tendrás ningún problema. Yo juego X-Wing, y hay quienes hacen tarjetas de pilotos y las vended en eBay sin ningún problema. Sin embargo, te recomendaría que les dieras otro nombre que siendo similar, no compita directamente con el titulo de ARES. Por ejemplo, "The Glory of Sail," o "Ships of Glory," o "Sails of War."

Saludos y congratulaciones!

Hola Gustavo, gracias por el consejo. Yo no voy a dedicarme a hacer eso, solo era por conocer que podría pasar si alguien lo hiciera. Yo desde mi punto de vista creo que es un poco falta de respeto adueñarse del trabajo que uno ha hecho para lucrarse ( aunque sea por 1 $) pero esa es sólo mi opinión. Un saludo!!!

[Redcoat]

I've seen what I would guess to be copyright infringement on ebay.

Like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pirate-Sail-...IAAOSwI-BWJ-kW

And here I am, polishing my app for iPhone, thinking of releasing it if I ever get the time to finish it, but once again I get doubts about copyright issues. How much could I use the symbols in the game and how much would players recognize if I redid everything?

I guess that's a violation. I will not go into discussion with the author of the ad.

[Redcoat]

That is a very safe and respectful approach. A good rule is that if it has no financial effect on a publisher, and their artwork and ideas are not plagiarised, you are generally safe.

You can be sure The person doing this, was warned by me month ago. I only want to expose here this situation because can have consequences and I would like to know what.

[Devsdoc]

Hi Julian,
If you where to publish this game or add on. How would you feel if some one was to add/re-do your rules and pieces and sale them. I have published a book and over the years have see my work used under some one else's name does get to me and make me mad.
Be safe
Rory

[Redcoat]

Hi Julian,
If you where to publish this game or add on. How would you feel if some one was to add/re-do your rules and pieces and sale them. I have published a book and over the years have see my work used under some one else's name does get to me and make me mad.
Be safe
Rory

I think the same

[TexaS]

I wonder what Ares would think about me releasing a free iPhone app to keep track of ships.
It does have some of their artwork in it, mostly to make it clear what damage is what.


I'm going to replace the sail setting masts with some I'll make more my own.

There are some graphics that are "under construction".


But damage is harder to recognize from the chits if it's not the same pictures...

[David Manley]

I'm sure you'd get a quick response if you asked them

[Bligh]

Looks very good Jonas.
Why not get in touch with them and ask.
You may even get them to take it on board.
Rob.

[Bligh]

How about that for a coincidence Dave.
Rob.

[David Manley]

How about that for a coincidence Dave.
Rob.

+1

[TexaS]

I'm sure you'd get a quick response if you asked them

A quick "NO" would be the death of the app though.

[David Manley]

best to find out sooner rather than later then.

[TexaS]

I'll use it myself anyway. I always make apps that I want and then I make them available for free if I think anyone else would want them.
There are a few apps made specifically for roleplaying campaigns that never will be released publicly since no one else would have any use of it.

[Bligh]

It is very nice when you have those skills at your fingertips Jonas.
The range of abilities of the members here never fails to amaze me.
Rob.

[Union Jack]

I'd use it, especially if it allowed the control of multiple ships.

[David Manley]

I'll use it myself anyway.......

I have no app skills, but I often put together spreadsheets as game aids. We ran a Crimean naval campaign a year or two back using my "Iron and Fire" rules, and as just about every ship had large numbers of broadside guns rather than the handful of pivots and others that the rules usually cover there were buckets of dice being thrown. By the end of the weekend you could press a key and resolve a hundred gunner's broadside, including basic and critical damage, which made the final climactic battle run far more smoothly :)

[TexaS]

I'm sure you'd get a quick response if you asked them

Well, they were quick to answer and they're positive so far. After we get an agreement in place I might even get their graphics in a better format.

I'd use it, especially if it allowed the control of multiple ships.

That was the main point of the application. You swipe between them. They're above each other.

[TexaS]

Scrolling between ships.


Selecting actions out of what is needed and maneouvres out of what is possible due to the last one..

[TexaS]

If anyone have any good idea of how to select "Not loaded" for broadsides it would be appreciated too. It's for the initial value and will be among the different loads ball, chainshot, grape and double shotted.

[David Manley]

Well, they were quick to answer and they're positive so far.

I thought they might be

[Nightmoss]

Well done Jonas! Good luck as you move forward on this app. It looks great so far.

[Bligh]

Huzzah Jonas!
Good luck in this venture.
Rob.

[TexaS]

Thank you, Rob.

In keeping with the common practice for Sails of Glory and timetables I should probably announce release planned to January an actually release in April so don't hold your breath.

[David Manley]

And be very careful not to mention which year

[TexaS]

.

[Kentop]

If anyone have any good idea of how to select "Not loaded" for broadsides it would be appreciated too. It's for the initial value and will be among the different loads ball, chainshot, grape and double shotted.

For a given turn, just gray out the types of ammo not loaded and and highlight the loaded ammo. If nothing is loaded, then gray out all the types. Once you can reload, simply highlight the available choices, then gray out the non chosen ones for two turns. Once a broadside is given, you can gray out the chosen ammo along with the rest.

[Kentop]

best to find out sooner rather than later then.

It's always better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission. Artwork is easy to swap out.

[TexaS]

For a given turn, just gray out the types of ammo not loaded and and highlight the loaded ammo. If nothing is loaded, then gray out all the types. Once you can reload, simply highlight the available choices, then gray out the non chosen ones for two turns. Once a broadside is given, you can gray out the chosen ammo along with the rest.

I'm sorry for not being very clear. At the start of a battle you need to choose what the broadsides are loaded with. I have nice graphics for the loads but not for "not loaded at all" and that should be an alternative. Perhaps I just should make it possible to take any load away from the "loaded" spot by just tapping it as you can in the actions view. That would probably be best... Funny I didn't think of that before...

It's always better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission. Artwork is easy to swap out.

That was my idea too. If I got a no it would be final. If I didn't ask I could probably pass under the radar in a "If they pretend they didn't see it. They haven't given up their rights."-kind of way. But they didn't say no so this was the best way in the end. I thought that if someone who had had dealings with them suggested it, there would be a good chance.

And making it free also makes everything simpler.

[Kentop]

That was my idea too. If I got a no it would be final. If I didn't ask I could probably pass under the radar in a "If they pretend they didn't see it. They haven't given up their rights."-kind of way. But they didn't say no so this was the best way in the end. I thought that if someone who had had dealings with them suggested it, there would be a good chance.

And making it free also makes everything simpler.

Americans are so afraid of litigation that they take out one million dollar riders on their homes in case someone should stub their toe on your sprinkler and sue you for not painting the damn thing bright orange with warning signs 50 feet on either side. I have found that if you act in good faith, lawyers will not touch you with a ten foot pole. Not even ambulance chasers. Businesses, by and large, do not engage in frivolous lawsuits (unless it's against another business). It simply costs too much to "protect copyrights" for every infraction all over the word. You should act in good faith, meaning that you are not trying to steal profits from a company for personal gain. If you act in good faith, you shouldn't fear BIG LEGAL bearing down on you.

[Herkybird]

Quite right, Kenneth. Generally the law attempts to be fair and reasonable.