Wave 3 Status and Update???

[Nightmoss]

I'm starting a new thread to discuss, share and speculate on news or updates for the next wave of Sails of Glory ships. As a subset I'd also be interested in any news/updates on the "Fleet Rules" Ares is working on, but perhaps that deserves its own thread?

News from Gen Con was pretty thin, almost non existent. I saw Roberto at the booth only once and he was too busy to interrupt with questions (the vendor room was a mob scene every day). Jim (a regular Ares volunteer and organizer of the big record breaking attempt) couldn't really comment on Wave 3 and only knew that they're working on the 'fleet rules'.

It's August and some additional information really should be forthcoming unless Ares is holding off until Spiel? If Wave 3 is still on track for an end of year release, which I seriously doubt, then I would have thought something might have been released on their website, on Facebook or at Gen Con?

So, what's up? Anyone know?

[Comte de Brueys]

We saw WGF series 8 prototypes and the USS Constitution / HMS Victory at the Spiel 2014.

Maybe we see some prototypes this year in Essen again.

[Bligh]

I hope so Sven.
I'm starting to get withdrawal symptoms. I know because I'm now starting to buy duplicates of ships I already have.
Rob.

[Nightmoss]

We saw WGF series 8 prototypes and the USS Constitution / HMS Victory at the Spiel 2014.

Maybe we see some prototypes this year in Essen again.

I hope you're right Sven, but the lack of any SoG news is a tad disappointing. However, if you want yet another fantasy board game Ares is starting a Kickstarter in September for a game called Sword and Sorcery. Marcowargamer has a video up of the Wings bombers, which I somehow never saw and the figures for this new game. Also Conan coverage, but nothing new for SoG though.

[TexaS]

Oh. You've got it easy...

I've got the shakes, modifying ships just to get new models.

[Nightmoss]

Without being overly negative I have to feel that a lack of response from anyone "in the know" concerning the thread topic is not a good sign for Wave 3's timely arrival. It would seem Keith's prediction of 2nd quarter 2016 is now more likely than I was hoping for.

[David Manley]

Worth remembering that sometimes people "in the know" are only thus because they have been asked to keep certain confidences and have agreed to do so......

[Bligh]

Well said Dave.
Rob.

[Union Jack]

A nods as good as a wink to a blind bat, eh?

[Naharaht]

We shall just have to be patient like sailors two hundred years ago, who took months to reach their destination.

[Gunner]

We shall just have to be patient like sailors two hundred years ago, who took months to reach their destination.

Not one of my strong suits.
A few months I can handle, but close to a year is a bummer, and interest wanes.

[David Manley]

You aren't the only one, and in this we see the inherent weakness of a set of rules that is tied to particular models and requires specific game aides (in the form of the manoeuvre cards). This style of product drives spoon feeding, or at best an almost reliance by the player community on new product, which in turn places a heavy responsibility on the manufacturer to deliver. So here we are lamenting the lack of new stuff, whilst players of more "traditional" sets just get on and (a) develop stats for whatever they need (if indeed they need to as in in many case the rules already have stats for the majority of ships that players are likely to use) and (b) enjoy several ranges of decent existing models that can be used as is or proxies to a high degree to provide just about any ship type. The only significant disbenefit they face is the modelling side which is obviously a challenge to some. But in many cases the rules they are playing have been in existence for many years and enjoy enduring popularity (Close Action, Heart of Oak, Form Line of Battle, ActionUnde Sail for example). Their flexible nature enables them to remain popular. In contrast, and as you say, interest in SGN wanes for many players without a constant release of wargaming "crack". And if interest wanes then so does the market and hence the economic justification for the manufacturer to release new product. A vicious circle.

[Bligh]

Very well stated Dave.
Although I have only been seriously involved this year I'm already looking for methods of enhancing my enjoyment of the game.
Many of you old hands must be feeling becalmed and in the Doldrums by now.
Rob.

[csadn]

You aren't the only one, and in this we see the inherent weakness of a set of rules that is tied to particular models and requires specific game aides (in the form of the manoeuvre cards).

Well, when the gaming co's finally figure out to stop trying to "lock in" the gamers....

[Bligh]

On the positive side, and as a sop to my languor in the slough of despond, this hiatus in production may give me money and time enough to get some coastal items bought and painted.
Rob.

[David Manley]

Not me, because I've been playing AoS games for decades and I have large fleets of all kinds of ships in a number of scales, plus a variety of rules to use. For me SGN is but one option. But for those who are not so fortunate I can really appreciate the issue.

[TexaS]

Coastal items?

What are you looking at getting?

I'm thinking of trying my hand at building a more integrated coastal battery and perhaps a signal station. The only pity is that my terrain is built to look like the Caribbean but the semaphore stations were located in France. Perhaps it can work as Spain and Mediterranean France?

[Bligh]

As my ships are in the Carib anyway, I was looking at Hills cliffs sandy beaches, a stone fort on a headland, a watchtower with battery and a small town. So nothing too lavish really Jonas. Oh! and a rocky Island with a fort.
Rob.

[TexaS]

That sounds kind of like what I have.

Perhaps I could make a How to...

[Bligh]

That would be great Jonas,
Rob.

[TexaS]

And sorry for stealing the thread.
I'm eagerly awaiting any news about wave 3 and think Ares should at least release "paper" supplements too keep up interest until the new miniatures are finished.

[TexaS]

Then I'll set to it.
I have to buy a little more materials, but then...

I have an idea of what I want made too.

[7eat51]

I fear the upcoming KS could be a sign that Ares' limited resources will be spent in another area for sometime, leaving SoG on the back-burner. I hope I am wrong. Time to check out that KS.

[Bligh]

To which K.S. do you allude please Eric?
Rob.

[7eat51]

To which K.S. do you allude please Eric?
Rob.

http://www.sword-and-sorcery.com/

[Bligh]

Thanks Eric.
Rob.

[7eat51]

I might jump in. I think Ares produces decent games. I regret missing the Galaxy Defenders (I think that's the name) KS. I have most of their other games.

[Bligh]

Any actual further news on the timing of wave three, or the Fleet action rules.
My Squadrons, with recent additions, are rapidly approaching what might be called a Fleet.
If we can add a few ships from wave three I will be there.
Rob.

[Herkybird]

Any actual further news on the timing of wave three, or the Fleet action rules.
My Squadrons, with recent additions, are rapidly approaching what might be called a Fleet.
If we can add a few ships from wave three I will be there.
Rob.

I wonder how many ships are 'enough' !

I have been asked by one of the lads at our club to do a mini campaign -- and no doubt I will have to supply most of the ships!
I need a merchantman! - and some coastal fortifications, and have yet to find what I want. There is a show at the end of November in Stockton where I hope to get what I need.
Has anyone done a set of manoeuvre cards, or ships log for a generic merchantman?

Sheesck, I love this game!

[Union Jack]

I have enough ships in SoG to fit out 2 decent squadrons to oppose each other. And that should do for me, anything larger I have 40 Langton ships that cover everything from sloops to 120 gunners.

[Bligh]

All I really need now are a couple of 80s, 64s, and Merchantmen. That will do me unless I decide to produce anymore hulks.
Rob.

[TexaS]

"Need" is a problematic word to use this way.

I do want to have 80s, 64s, 50s, and Merchantmen in my fleets, but I also want the Swedish and Russian fleets with their version of the ship sizes.

I COULD make more 80s out of Témérairs but I'd prefer to buy them finished.

I don't know how to make a Hemmema or Turuma so those I "need"...

[Nightmoss]

Spiel 2015 has come and gone. Did anyone here attend and find out from Ares what 'surprise' they were working on for Sails? Any hints/updates/information on Sails or Wings as well would be fun to hear about (beyond what Roberto already posted on BoardGame Geek)?

[Diamondback]

I'm out of the loop with Ares for the next few weeks--laptop's been RMA'ed back to the builder and I'm running crippled on a loaner until it's back, looks like the thing blew a graphics card.

[csadn]

I'm out of the loop with Ares for the next few weeks--laptop's been RMA'ed back to the builder and I'm running crippled on a loaner until it's back, looks like the thing blew a graphics card.

No -- that's just ice cream.

;)

[Bligh]

No -- that's just ice cream.

;)

For goodnes sakes Chris, don't get 'em started on Penguin jokes here too.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

Not tracking ya, French... most of my data and bookmarks are on the Suitcase Monster, and what I do have still available I gotta sort through twelve terabytes of external drive to find again.

[Comte de Brueys]

No news about series 3 from the Spiel in Essen.

They showed only USS Constitution and HMS Victory special packs.

[Capn Duff]

Was not wave 3 slated for next year ?
Shame as I am looking forward to getting some Spaniards

[Nightmoss]

No news about series 3 from the Spiel in Essen.

They showed only USS Constitution and HMS Victory special packs.

Thanks for that information. It was pretty much what I figured, but I was hoping to get that news from someone who was actually there.

Was not wave 3 slated for next year ?
Shame as I am looking forward to getting some Spaniards

As far as I've seen it is going to be next year. Roberto posted some information on BoardGame Geek weeks ago, but I was hoping more would be let out of the bag at Spiel. I'm just hoping it's early 2016 and not the end of next year?

[Kentop]

Imagine being a Napoleonic miniatures war gamer. It takes years to paint up enough figures and terrain to put on a battle like Austerlitz. In the meantime, as your army is being assembled, you use what you have and get creative. SOG is great for that without having to paint up new ships for every scenario. Most Napoleonic gamers have no problem using their beautifully painted Prussian dragoons to stand in for Russian troops or any other army they need to represent. It's a major part of miniature gaming. I used SOG ships to play David Manley's Lord of The Sea elizabethan rules. The cogs fit on 1.5" bases, so I just doubled the distances for 3" bases. It worked fine. I could have printed out counters and used them, but I like to see actual ships moving around.

[Bligh]

Imagine being a Napoleonic miniatures war gamer. It takes years to paint up enough figures and terrain to put on a battle like Austerlitz. In the meantime, as your army is being assembled, you use what you have and get creative. SOG is great for that without having to paint up new ships for every scenario. Most Napoleonic gamers have no problem using their beautifully painted Prussian dragoons to stand in for Russian troops or any other army they need to represent. It's a major part of miniature gaming. I used SOG ships to play David Manley's Lord of The Sea Elizabethan rules. The cogs fit on 1.5" bases, so I just doubled the distances for 3" bases. It worked fine. I could have printed out counters and used them, but I like to see actual ships moving around.

That is odd Ken.
I have never been able to use troops for other Nations, although quite happily using AWI Brits as French and Indian Wars Brits, just with the correct Light Co and Grenadiers added, plus a changed colour party.
However, although probably less obvious to spot the wrong SoG ship especially at our scale, it just never entered my head to use them for anything other than Napoleonic.
Could be a whole new ballgame here.
Rob.

[Union Jack]

Sorry Ken but I wouldn't and I've been an avid Napoleonic gamer since I was 12. That said if there wasn't a troop type available (not back in 72) I would remodel figures to near enough what they should be but paint them in the correct colours.

Imagine being a Napoleonic miniatures war gamer. It takes years to paint up enough figures and terrain to put on a battle like Austerlitz. In the meantime, as your army is being assembled, you use what you have and get creative. SOG is great for that without having to paint up new ships for every scenario. Most Napoleonic gamers have no problem using their beautifully painted Prussian dragoons to stand in for Russian troops or any other army they need to represent. It's a major part of miniature gaming. I used SOG ships to play David Manley's Lord of The Sea elizabethan rules. The cogs fit on 1.5" bases, so I just doubled the distances for 3" bases. It worked fine. I could have printed out counters and used them, but I like to see actual ships moving around.

[AdmWilloughy]

Imagine being a Napoleonic miniatures war gamer. It takes years to paint up enough figures and terrain to put on a battle like Austerlitz. In the meantime, as your army is being assembled, you use what you have and get creative. SOG is great for that without having to paint up new ships for every scenario. Most Napoleonic gamers have no problem using their beautifully painted Prussian dragoons to stand in for Russian troops or any other army they need to represent. It's a major part of miniature gaming. I used SOG ships to play David Manley's Lord of The Sea elizabethan rules. The cogs fit on 1.5" bases, so I just doubled the distances for 3" bases. It worked fine. I could have printed out counters and used them, but I like to see actual ships moving around.

I like this attitude, as it makes the game accessible to new players, but it is sadly very rare.

I had a 18th-19th force once, it was a bunch of British Irregulars from the colonies... (60th Royal American Light Infantry Brigade.) The rules for irregular soldiers where there in the system used... but when I showed up with a whole irregular company, for a company sized game, the event organizer accused me of cheese play and banned me. I sold my beautifully painted army afterwards and got into 40k as a result.

The problem he had, along with the 'regulars' was that artillery was less effective against irregular, and that they would've been forced to send cavalry at me because my rifles could out shoot their line muskets. In other words, they had to do more then line men up and roll dice. They'd have to actually try and out maneuver a force that was not going to play ball and line up for them to kill.

Really spoiled me on historicals for a long while. Now I am getting in this and Bolt Action... I'd love to bring my 60th boys back, but I still see the stigma in the community against running anything but big blocks of 'tradtional' formations.

These guys would have their minds blown if they ever did French Indian or American Revolutionary War ... or hell Peninsula Campaign in Spain.

[Kentop]

I like this attitude, as it makes the game accessible to new players, but it is sadly very rare.

I had a 18th-19th force once, it was a bunch of British Irregulars from the colonies... (60th Royal American Light Infantry Brigade.) The rules for irregular soldiers where there in the system used... but when I showed up with a whole irregular company, for a company sized game, the event organizer accused me of cheese play and banned me. I sold my beautifully painted army afterwards and got into 40k as a result.

The problem he had, along with the 'regulars' was that artillery was less effective against irregular, and that they would've been forced to send cavalry at me because my rifles could out shoot their line muskets. In other words, they had to do more then line men up and roll dice. They'd have to actually try and out maneuver a force that was not going to play ball and line up for them to kill.

Really spoiled me on historicals for a long while. Now I am getting in this and Bolt Action... I'd love to bring my 60th boys back, but I still see the stigma in the community against running anything but big blocks of 'tradtional' formations.

These guys would have their minds blown if they ever did French Indian or American Revolutionary War ... or hell Peninsula Campaign in Spain.

What rules were they using? If all they want to do is move brigades around, then they are the cheesy ones. Russian Irregulars and Cossacks destroyed Napoleon's Le Grand Armeé during their retreat from Moscow.

[Gunner]

What rules were they using? If all they want to do is move brigades around, then they are the cheesy ones. Russian Irregulars and Cossacks destroyed Napoleon's Le Grand Armeé during their retreat from Moscow.

Winter helped.

[NimitsTexan]

What rules were they using? If all they want to do is move brigades around, then they are the cheesy ones. Russian Irregulars and Cossacks destroyed Napoleon's Le Grand Armeé during their retreat from Moscow.

A lot of things destroyed Napoleon's army in Russia, I do not know that one can give Cossacks all the credit (the regular Russian "brigades" played a big part, too). But for a company level war-game, excluding Light or irregular infantry in favor of does seem a bit strange. Arguably, company-sized skirmish games are the most historically appropriate venue for such units; you would rarely see a line infantry company operating by itself . . . unless, probably, it was attacking or being attacked by irregulars.

[David Manley]

the event organizer accused me of cheese play and banned me. I sold my beautifully painted army afterwards and got into 40k as a result.

My reaction to something like that would be to find some decent people to play against instead of morons.

such a shame you sold your figures. I've sold off very few o my painted stuff over the years and have regretted it later most times when I have.

[Dr.Maturin]

I like this attitude, as it makes the game accessible to new players, but it is sadly very rare.

I had a 18th-19th force once, it was a bunch of British Irregulars from the colonies... (60th Royal American Light Infantry Brigade.) The rules for irregular soldiers where there in the system used... but when I showed up with a whole irregular company, for a company sized game, the event organizer accused me of cheese play and banned me. I sold my beautifully painted army afterwards and got into 40k as a result.

The problem he had, along with the 'regulars' was that artillery was less effective against irregular, and that they would've been forced to send cavalry at me because my rifles could out shoot their line muskets. In other words, they had to do more then line men up and roll dice. They'd have to actually try and out maneuver a force that was not going to play ball and line up for them to kill.

Really spoiled me on historicals for a long while. Now I am getting in this and Bolt Action... I'd love to bring my 60th boys back, but I still see the stigma in the community against running anything but big blocks of 'tradtional' formations.

These guys would have their minds blown if they ever did French Indian or American Revolutionary War ... or hell Peninsula Campaign in Spain.

I must admit that I had a similar problem with my 25mm and 15mm Napoleonic Prussians back in the 70's. It is a well documented fact that the Prussians just loved to deploy Half Batteries but when ever I tried to use this historical formation it was always refused as "it wasn't in the RULES".

[7eat51]

I must admit that I had a similar problem with my 25mm and 15mm Napoleonic Prussians back in the 70's. It is a well documented fact that the Prussians just loved to deploy Half Batteries but when ever I tried to use this historical formation it was always refused as "it wasn't in the RULES".

I feared I would run into a certain mindset when using WoG and SoG with different genres of play, e.g. pirates, planes attacking King Kong, etc., let alone using ships from one country to represent ships from another country given the limited available product line, or mixing planes from different periods within a war in a given scenario. I can appreciate running an historically accurate game, but I can appreciate, also, running a truly fictitious game that has an enjoyable or interesting story.

With respect to rules, unless one is running a tournament, they should be at the GMs discretion. If a GM thinks that something would increase the enjoyment of the group, so be it. Why let a stringent adherence to the rules stand in the way? As long as all players are informed ahead of time so expectations are accurate, go for it, I say. This is why I don't play Paladins. Never let law stand in the way of good.