The progress of wargaming in recent times

[HMS Lydia]

I agree wholeheartedly! - my WW2 skirmish rules work with the Fire Team as their basic element - if you want to see them go to our club downloads page

Looking at rules and QRS. Interesting.

[HMS Lydia]

Eh -- there were enough younglings at Enfilade to balance out the silverbacks. Mainly it's a matter of "love thy neofen".

Chris,

Not disputing that kids game. Disputing that they game anything more complicated than WoTC level stuff. And I know that there are exceptions to the rule.

Bob

[7eat51]

Thanks for the read, Eric. It's been my observations on game designs that you are damned if you do, and damned if you don't, simultaneously! I like the open rules aspect of SOG for that very observation. A basic game, a standard game and a kitchen sink game while allowing for house rules in any of those versions pleases all the people all the time IMHO, and SOG does just that. It reminds me of the old Tunnels and Trolls reaction to Dungeons and Dragons. Ken St. Andre, who I had the pleasure of playing T&T at Rincon a couple of years ago, had that attitude when he first stumbled upon D&D. Dump the rules you don't like, make up or choose optional rules you do like.

I found his comments helpful in terms of appreciating the game's design and for ideas on how to play; though this was on game design philosophy, it served as a bit of playing advice..

I, too, like the openness of WoG and SoG. I enjoy reading house-rule discussions, and having the ability to customize the game's rules to a given session's goal. Fortunately, my friends are open to trying various things, so we can explore different rules.

That's been my attitude toward GMing Pathfinder games - the rules are a place to start, but we're free to deviate as much as we want as long as everyone is aware of the changes. I consistently remind my players to ask me questions and not to assume.

I've not tried T&T. Is it still active?

[Popsical]

Games like EastFront or Combat Commander, or other games with activated ZOC (zones of control) are interesting as you are made to juggle the push/pull of enabling Headquarter blocks or Leader counters in order to activate other units in their surrounding ZOC. It's not as though units outside of a ZOC cannot act, only that they do so at the expense of being less efficient strategically in respect to the overall meta-game, whereas effective use of your ZOC can maximize results. Even in the context of IGOUGO, little things like this add an extra layer of strategy that I enjoy.

I agree with this, igougo needs rules such as these to lessen the "swing" from player to player.
I tried the chess where classic igougo allows all white pieces to move before black, grim for the black player is an understatement.

[Lugburz]

I found his comments helpful in terms of appreciating the game's design and for ideas on how to play; though this was on game design philosophy, it served as a bit of playing advice..

I, too, like the openness of WoG and SoG. I enjoy reading house-rule discussions, and having the ability to customize the game's rules to a given session's goal. Fortunately, my friends are open to trying various things, so we can explore different rules.

That's been my attitude toward GMing Pathfinder games - the rules are a place to start, but we're free to deviate as much as we want as long as everyone is aware of the changes. I consistently remind my players to ask me questions and not to assume.

I've not tried T&T. Is it still active?

Might also want to take a gander at Labyrinth Lord, a BX/AD&D 1E clone published under the Open Game License. It's as old school as you're gonna get, aside from the OE "white box" pamphlets. Things I like: Race-as-class; low overhead; emphasis on RP'ing (instead of min/max'ing stats); extremely flexible and easily accepts house rules. I'm running a weekly Fantasy Roleplaying Club at the library for teens and tweens, and the response has been fantastic — we're playing the B1 module, "In Search of The Unknown". The only thing I've tweaked is changing the original THAC0 (eg descending AC = good) to use an ascending AC system (as per modern RPG standards). I try my best to run my games along Gygax's maxim of "Rulings not rules", which is to say that it's often best to go with what "makes sense" and feels fun, even if that means bending a rule to suite the situation at hand. I found that with some of the later iterations of D&D that the rules are so crunchy, it's easy to get bogged down cross referencing stats for abilities, feats, proficiencies, etc. I'd rather keep it fun, fast, and loose. The adult RPG group I play with each week (going on 10 years now!) is utterly wed to the idea of individual initiative during combat (ie everyone rolls, accounting for INT modifiers, and takes their turns accordingly). As unpredictable and exciting as this might be, it also slows down combat considerably. Instead, I use the Labyrinth Lord/OSR approach of "group initiative" with combat executing in phases. Example: I roll 2D6, each die being a different color — one for monsters/foes and one for the adventurers. Highest wins first round of initiative; heroes go first on ties. [EDIT: Upon reflection, this turns battles into a granular case of IGOUGO, where all the combatants of each side make their attacks before the other side can react]. Combat resolves in the following order: Missile Weapons, Spells, Melee. This does a great job of speeding up combat, and it also segments players into different layers of initiative based on what they intend to do that round. You might wonder what happens if everyone chooses to enter melee, how would you decide who goes first? Easy! I just go around the table in clockwise order and have each person take their action. Next round? I'll go in reverse and go counter clockwise. There are obviously rules for individual initiative based on your DEX modifier, but I like that you can take or leave what you want and enjoy whatever works best for your group.

[7eat51]

I'll check out Labyrinth Lord, Keegan. Thanks for the recommendation.

We played Exalted for a couple of months last year. It has an interesting initiative system based on speed, weapon usage, etc., so it was possible to go twice before someone else. There was a circle, and the GM would move us so many spaces around the circle based on what we did. In that sense, there weren't rounds as much as one continual encounter, if that makes sense.

I like the quote - rulings not rules.

One thing I dislike about Pathfinder is that once the GM says, "Roll for initiative", narrative and some creativity goes out the window. I prefer a lot of role playing and not just heavy roll playing. Another thing about Pathfinder is that race seems more about stating a character than how that character fits into the story, society, etc. I realize that all of these are GM issues, though.

[Kentop]

I've not tried T&T. Is it still active?

Not so's you'd notice. They had a kickstarter to bring out "Tunnels and Trolls Deluxe" which was successful, and they were quoting August of 2013 as the publishing date. Everybody who paid good money to make the kickstarter successful (original target was 20,000, they made 6 times that), are still waiting for publication. These guys are based in Phoenix, Arizona (heads up, Gunner) and for over 30 years have had an on again, off again relationship with Flying Buffalo Inc. that has resulted in delay after delay for every project they ever launched They should get a medal for most excuses ever for not shipping a product. Back when I was in college, it was the only alternative to Dungeons and Dragons. Most fantasy role playing gamers take themselves too seriously, and Tunnels and Trolls was always considered too jokey by the rank and file D&D users. Spells have names like "Take that you fiend", which uses a character's IQ rating as a weapon. But is is a much simpler and more enjoyable dungeon experience than D&D. The best part is that it is really easy for the Dungeon Master (term no longer used) to host a game than it does in D&D. That's why I liked it. The best thing about T&T was that a lot of solo dungeons were written for it, some of them written by award winning Sci Fi and Fantasy writers. A solo dungeon was a book (published sporadically by Flying Buffalo when they were in the mood to do so) where you would read a paragraph and it would give you three or four ways to respond. For each response, you would go to a different page in the book to continue the story. They were really very cleverly written and were surprisingly playable more than once. I've met the creator, Ken St. Andre, and played a game with him and there is no difference between the way I hosted a game and the way he hosted the game I played with him. That's a testament to good, concise rule writing. But Wizards of the Coast have nothing to worry about. The trend in fantasy role playing games seems to be players sitting around the table cracking jokes and having a jolly good time. Tunnels and Trolls did that back in the 70's.

[Lugburz]

Deviating further from the "wargaming" topic (which I'm happy to chew over as well!), but has anyone here played Dungeon World? IT'S AMAZING! Low overhead, collaborative world building, minimal stats, extremely flexible and easy to play. Unlike any other classic rule system, this one flows really really well.

[csadn]

Not yet -- I'm still waiting on _Planet Mercenary_; I've figured out how to combine Tony Stark's Iron Man armor with _Pacific Rim_ Jaegers....

[7eat51]

Ken, do you still play T&T?

Keegan, I have never heard of this. Another thing to check out on BGG.

I participate in BGG's RPG Chain of Generosity; I have picked up many interesting items there. It is kind of like a lending library: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/6...ain-generosity

[7eat51]

I recommend Saul David's book on the Zulu war, its very interesting.

Zulu: The Heroism and Tragedy of the Zulu War of 1879 has arrived. When I return to Zulu on the Ramparts this fall, I will read this in conjunction with playing. Thanks again for the suggestion.

[Popsical]

No probs Eric, i thought i knew quite a bit about the Zulu war until i read that book.
Its the only book i read where i dont want a Napoleon to lose

[7eat51]

Well, this evening Sue and I were watching George (CelticCat) and Colleen play in a Splendor tournament at our FLGS. My friend Jamie, the store's owner, explained the basics of D&D Attack Wing to us. We walked out with the Starter Set. And so begins another trek down mini collecting lane.

We have WoG, SoG and now this, and George has X-Wing, so I think we have the bases covered.

[Clipper1701]

Ah! I envy all of you! A truly delightful group. It's not the games or things, it the crew! Enjoy!!!

[7eat51]

We're definitely blessed, Brother.

If you stay again, we'll arrange some games at the FLGS. We starting to develop a consistent group of players. I taught them the altitude rules and full set of special damages for WGS on Monday. We did an every plane for itself furball to give them experience with the fuller set of rules. Next month, we'll play the first of two scenarios on Battle of France. I will be ordering some AIM planes for the September scenario.

[Clipper1701]

I hope to be back into the modeling world soon, my left arm is still attached but not doing all I want it to. But it is getting better.

[7eat51]

I just replied on the 'Drome. My heart is with you, Dave.