HMS VICTORY Errata

[Gunner]

I'm not sure if this has been posted before,

"In the Sails of Glory Special Ship Pack HMS Victory, there's a misprint on the #2 and #8 maneuver cards. The icons at the base of the cards are in reverse order: the Backing Sails symbol should be below the short maneuver arrow; the Full Sails symbol should be below the long maneuver arrow (see the wrong and the corrected versions of these cards in the image"

Actually it's the I-15/27 and I-16/27 card sail settings that are backwards. The #2 & #8 cards that they mention are their Veer values.

[7eat51]

With my eyesight, Ed, I am happy to tell the difference between long and short arrows. Icons? Who can see those?

Thanks for pointing this out.

[TexaS]

I'm not sure what to do with their download though. Should I print it and glue to the front of the card? If I print it separately on carton, they should provide a backside too. I'm not going to do any of those, but I'm curious what they think we should do with it.

[Gunner]

I'm not sure what to do with their download though. Should I print it and glue to the front of the card? If I print it separately on carton, they should provide a backside too. I'm not going to do any of those, but I'm curious what they think we should do with it.

I wouldn't do anything and use the cards the way they are. Just looking at the distance they travel is all you need to know what the sail settings should be.

[Bligh]

I'm glad you said that Ed, because I suspect that my eyesight is about as bad as Eric's if not worse, so to change the icons would not be seen by me anyway.
Rob.

[fredmiracle]

I was surprised some people on BGG thought this was an issue and surprised Ares bothered to put out corrected cards. No big deal ...

[Lugburz]

As errata goes, this is borderline insignificant. I'm still nonetheless impresses with Ares' ability to release so much material with so few mistakes. If the inversion of two minor icons is the worst they can do, that's fine with me!

[Kentop]

This makes me question the whole backing sail - full sail thing. The difference is so slight, why bother at all? Has anyone won a battle thanks to the "edge" the misprinted cards give to backing sails? Nope. Did anybody avoid a collision based on the switched values? Nope. You might as well be using basic rules. I love having the option of setting sails for battle or speed and having to allocate crew to do so, but in SOG, it really doesn't matter.

[7eat51]

This makes me question the whole backing sail - full sail thing. The difference is so slight, why bother at all? Has anyone won a battle thanks to the "edge" the misprinted cards give to backing sails? Nope. Did anybody avoid a collision based on the switched values? Nope. You might as well be using basic rules. I love having the option of setting sails for battle or speed and having to allocate crew to do so, but in SOG, it really doesn't matter.

I haven't paid as much attention to sail setting as I have to wind attitude. There, I have noticed significant enough effects with respect to collisions, running aground, and to firing possibilities, especially when making harder turns. I would think the difference in the three speed arrows could have a similar effect. Granted, none of these, in-and-of-themselves were decisive, but they were contributing effects.

Please explain "in SOG, it really doesn't matter". I do not have much experience with other rule sets to envision the difference or what you are advocating, i.e. nothing for me to compare to. Thanks.

[Kentop]

Please explain "in SOG, it really doesn't matter". I do not have much experience with other rule sets to envision the difference or what you are advocating, i.e. nothing for me to compare to. Thanks.

In games that are hex based or use rulers for distance the impact is dramatic. In hex games, the distance is more than the length of the ship. Here are the rules for Wooden Ships and Iron Men:

Full sails allow ships to increase their movement allowance by setting more sails than normally used in battle.

Like battle sail speed, each ship has a full sail speed that is given on each ship's counter. There are three full sail speeds: 5, 6, and 7. The following diagrams give a ship's movement allowance at full sail in relation to wind attitudes:
speeds under full sail
Note in each ship's log each full Sail movement allowance per attitude.
All rigging hits scored on full sail ships are doubled.
Any ship which loses the entire first section of rigging immediately removes his ship from full sail status. It may not use full sails for the remainder of the game unless it repairs its rigging so as to regain at least one rigging square in the first section. (See X 8, Advanced Game).

[7eat51]

In hex games, the distance is more than the length of the ship.

That is pretty clear. Not being a sailor of any sort, would the difference in sail settings result in such dramatic changes as the hex games indicate?

You mention games that use rulers; I will look at rule sets I have to see how they handle this. I have not played them yet, so I have no idea from experience, from seeing the effects on the table.

[Kentop]

Depends on the weather. in a light breeze, not much, in a blow, it makes all the difference in the world. If a 200 ft ship is going 2 knots in a light breeze, that means it travels twice it's length per minute, in a blow, it is going 5 or six knots under the same sail, which means it travels 6 times it's length in that same minute. Wooden Ships and Iron men is literally averaging out distance traveled between 1 knot of wind and 10 knots so that the effect is, on average, kinda accurate. It is not accurate at it's extremes.

[7eat51]

I am rereading an Osprey duel title - Bonhomme Richard vs, Serapis. One can get a basic understanding of different sail settings from this. The author spoke about the settings in relation to the wind like you just did. I am learning to appreciate the effects of wind, slowly, but surely.

What I would enjoy seeing is a comparison in terms of distances traveled in a minute, for example, of different sail settings and different wind conditions.

Once I learned that there were 640 acres in a square mile, I was able to translate country-speech into my old neighborhood and envision the size of an x-acre plot.

[7eat51]

Kenneth, are you familiar with this series?




or this book?




If so, any thoughts/recommendations?

[Kentop]

Kenneth, are you familiar with this series?




or this book?




If so, any thoughts/recommendations?

No, but thanks for pointing them out. They are bound to wind up in my library (does anyone, besides me still have a room dedicated to books in their house?). The numbers I have been slinging around are absolutes. Of course a one knot wind will not propel a ship at one knot. There is a whole science devoted to sail efficiency. square rigged sails are at their most efficient (and more efficient than any other rig) when running before the wind. Bermuda rigged ships are more efficient tacking and jibing into the wind. But in the golden age of sail, all square rigged ships pretty much had the same sail efficiency, so, in a game like SOG, it's OK to ignore it. A Chinese junk could sail much closer to the wind than other square rigged vessels, which made them great pirate ships.

[7eat51]

I am learning a lot. One day, if my stomach allows, I would like to sail aboard some different ships and immediately see what is going on. I find all of this fascinating.

I think I will pick up the bottom book, as I do not have time for the top series for awhile (a little thing called a dissertation is looming over my head). Until the piled higher and deeper is done, when I read for pleasure, I do not have the luxury for texts that require long spells of sustained focus or reasoning. This is one of the reason I like the Osprey titles. I can read a couple of pages here and there and finish the book within a week. I do not lose my place, if you will, each time I put the book down and pick it up.

[David Manley]

https://archive.org/details/elementarynavalt00bain

[Nightmoss]

Kenneth, are you familiar with this series?




or this book?




If so, any thoughts/recommendations?

In addition to David's links also see here:

http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Search...s&page=1&ft=ft

Didn't find Steel's book. I suspect Cambridge University Press has renewed the copyright and hence it's not free full view. I did find these however. Some interesting titles.

http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Search...2C%20David&ft=

[Gunner]

https://archive.org/details/elementarynavalt00bain

Thank you Dave. I might have to donate a few bucks to their site.

[7eat51]

Here it is: http://www.hnsa.org/resources/manual...nd-seamanship/

As I looked at Vol. 4' contents on amazon, I must say, I am very tempted. It looks like it contains much that I desire to know. I prefer paper over reading on the computer, but we'll see.

[Naharaht]

Thank you for pointing out the error, Ed, I for one did not know about it.

[Bligh]

Thanks for helping me to spend some more of my ill gotten gains chaps.
It looks as if those books are essential reading for any budding Lieutenant.
Bligh.

[Lugburz]

(does anyone, besides me still have a room dedicated to books in their house?)

As a professional librarian, how could I not?

[Popsical]

As a professional librarian, how could I not?

Oook?

[Nightmoss]

A perfect setting to be reading some Patrick O'Brian I'd say. All my books are on shelves in the basement; 12 sections mostly double or triple deep shelved.

[Bligh]

You fellows have got to stop this.
It has now reminded me that I have to order the oak to make my next set of bookshelves, and this will take me away from a lot of my time here on Sails and the Drome for several weeks. to say nothing of the hole that it will make in my model fund.
mind you I do like those chairs.
Rob.

[7eat51]

Those are beautiful bookcases, Keegan.

I have books all over the house, and my office walls are mostly bookcases and shelves. Over the past few years, I started passing on books to students, alum, people on the street. Ironically, as my professional library experienced a culling, my hobby library grew.

[Lugburz]

The photo above shows my wife and our pup, however a more recent picture would feature a much more crowded mantle, and stacks of books flanking either side of the room, along with more and more stuff in the dining room. My office upstairs is essentially just books and hobby supplies and nothing else.

[Bligh]

Strange that Eric. My experience is almost an exact mirror of what you have said, save that a lot of my books have ended up at the Charity Shop.
Rob.

[Bligh]

The photo above shows my wife and our pup, however a more recent picture would feature a much more crowded mantle, and stacks of books flanking either side of the room, along with more and more stuff in the dining room. My office upstairs is essentially just books and hobby supplies and nothing else.

Good to hear you are serious about this business Keegan.
Rob.

[Kentop]

As a professional librarian, how could I not?

Oxblood leather wingback chairs (no points for a recliner, though), barrister bookcases, federal style fireplace with gold embossed garland and vase. Oriental rug. A perfect room to come home to after 8 months on the high seas. Very nice.

[Clipper1701]

The photo above shows my wife and our pup, however a more recent picture would feature a much more crowded mantle, and stacks of books flanking either side of the room, along with more and more stuff in the dining room. My office upstairs is essentially just books and hobby supplies and nothing else.

Wonderful to see you again my friend! And your lively wife as well, I have been hoping things would be sorted in time and you could grace our crew again. Cheers & Blessings! Dave

[Gunner]

Oxblood leather wingback chairs (no points for a recliner, though), barrister bookcases, federal style fireplace with gold embossed garland and vase. Oriental rug. A perfect room to come home to after 8 months on the high seas. Very nice.

You forgot the two more important things, the pretty woman and his dog.

[Bligh]

Not to mention the small Library Steps.
Bligh.

[Lugburz]

You forgot the two more important things, the pretty woman and his dog.

To be honest, this is what keeps bringing me back time and again — the lovely library is just an added bonus!

[Lugburz]

[Popsical]

To be honest, this is what keeps bringing me back time and again — the lovely library is just an added bonus!

As it should be! All us lucky fellas with beautiful and extremely tolerant (they are lets face it) wives, we know where we are well off.

Any conversation that includes librarians makes me think of the fantastic Terry Pratchett discworld novels and his Orangutan creation. Ooook!

[7eat51]

Great quote, Keegan.

Steve, I am fortunate in that my wife plays. I am unfortunate in that my wife plays too well.

As I explain (justify) my game purchases, I remind Sue there is a lot of worse things I could be doing; granted, she could say the same regarding the ever growing stash of materials for future art projects. If my primary vice is historical wargaming with some RPGing on the side, there's not much to worry about.

[Bligh]

Any conversation that includes librarians makes me think of the fantastic Terry Pratchett discworld novels and his Orangutan creation. Ooook!

I noticed you OOK!ed in that previous post.
Some time ago I saw a Librarian interviewed on TV.
He said that the esteem of Librarians in the eyes of the public had been raised immeasurably by Terry Pratchett and Buffy the Vampire slayer.
So this is how the common man judges the Kudos of the custodians of knowledge.
Hu!
Rob.

[Bligh]

Great quote, Keegan.

Steve, I am fortunate in that my wife plays. I am unfortunate in that my wife plays too well.

As I explain (justify) my game purchases, I remind Sue there is a lot of worse things I could be doing; granted, she could say the same regarding the ever growing stash of materials for future art projects. If my primary vice is historical wargaming with some RPGing on the side, there's not much to worry about.

Hardly a vice Eric.
The Devil makes work for idle hands!
Rob.

[Popsical]

Great quote, Keegan.

Steve, I am fortunate in that my wife plays. I am unfortunate in that my wife plays too well.

As I explain (justify) my game purchases, I remind Sue there is a lot of worse things I could be doing; granted, she could say the same regarding the ever growing stash of materials for future art projects. If my primary vice is historical wargaming with some RPGing on the side, there's not much to worry about.

Eric, my wife is a football (soccer to our US cousins) fan and spends her time and interest on seeing her Stoke city play as often as she can, so she doesnt mind my wargames vice.
Recently my expenditure has dropped drastically with the exit of GW from my life lol, so she is impressed by my scaling back of spending money!

Rob, the common man does not judge the custodians of knowledge at all if he is 300lb and can pull your arms off for fun!

[Nightmoss]

Well, there are librarians, and then there's Rex Libris. As a retired librarian myself I do own a few of these comic books, but I've stopped collecting and haven't kept up with the series. As the original librarian for the Alexandria Library he has some interesting views on books, knowledge and library privileges.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Libris

[Bligh]

Rob, the common man does not judge the custodians of knowledge at all if he is 300lb and can pull your arms off for fun!

In that case it is a good job that I know he is an Orangutan and is partial to Bananas, of which I have an abundance about my person. He may even be prepared to lease me a bit of L space to store all these books.
Rob.

[Walram]

How I wish for just a bit of that L space! My office/game storage/library wouldn't look like something out of hoarders!

[csadn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHoHaAYHq8

>:)

[Lugburz]

Well, there are librarians, and then there's Rex Libris. As a retired librarian myself I do own a few of these comic books, but I've stopped collecting and haven't kept up with the series. As the original librarian for the Alexandria Library he has some interesting views on books, knowledge and library privileges.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Libris

I have a painted plaster statue of Rex on the desk in my office :)

[Nightmoss]

I have a painted plaster statue of Rex on the desk in my office :)

Right on!

[7eat51]

Eric, my wife is a football (soccer to our US cousins) fan and spends her time and interest on seeing her Stoke city play as often as she can, so she doesnt mind my wargames vice.

Sue and I have learned how to be supportive of each other's interests. She is now into gaming, and I am into supporting her art, helping her at Farmers' Markets, etc. In my recent game order, I ordered Battle for Stalingrad - a two player card game; I look forward to seeing how that goes.