The Battle of Hood and Bismarck - Full WWII Documentary

[Nightmoss]

Just 'discovered' this YouTube video which is a fascinating documentary effort to locate both of these iconic ships in the Atlantic. Plaques honoring the fallen were placed at both sites, but at the time of filming Ted Briggs as the sole survivor of HMS Hood, was on board the search ship and pulled the lever that released the plaque (skip to 52:00 if you want to view this). Interviews with survivors of the Bismarck and other ships in the battle are also included.

Recent efforts to recover the bell of HMS Hood have not been successful. Many feel it should remain with the ship. I'm not aware of any recovery efforts for Bismarck, but they've been going back to the site since 1989.

[Comte de Brueys]

Lucky hit at the HMS Hood and later lucky torpedo hit on the Bismarck.

[Popsical]

Bismark's threat was more political ultimately than material, sooner or later she would have to re-fuel and re-arm. She was bound to be caught and sunk eventually (or remain trapped in northern french ports), however the Admiralty needed a decisive win early to keep face and show the world Britain still ruled the waves. The constant stream of military defeats England suffered up till the Bismark's sinking put lots of pressure on the navy to prove we could still win and were still worth backing.

[Union Jack]

Bismarck and Tirpitz did their job. They tied up infinitely more ships, especially Tirpitz, than would have been necessary if there was to be a major surface engagement. Germany could bot hope to win such an engagement and used her navy in small pieces which ultimately were each defeated by superior numbers. One could argue they did the job they were intended for. Threat and disruption. They could never hope to win against the Royl Navy head on but just their threat tied up the majority of e navy which could have been employed elsewhere.

[Nightmoss]

If you watched the documentary straight through I was rather surprised at the British firing on their own men to keep them away from the 'prize' of sinking the Bismarck? Just how accurate is that information? I've found very little data on that aspect of the conflict.

[David Manley]

I've been reading about the Bismarck campaign for decades and that's the first I've heard of it.

[Popsical]

Jim, ive never heard that before in any accounts of the sinking of the Bismark either.
I know the RN made an example of her by pummeling her to pieces, when it may have been quicker to have torpedoed her a bit earlier, but who could blame them their blood was up after the Hood blew up. Bismark earned the ire of the RN and her crew must have known she was going to get seriously clobbered after her steering was crippled. It must have been terrifying on board her as the RN closed in to punish her.

[csadn]

_Bismarck_ was scuttled -- Ballard's expedition proved that beyond doubt. The shots fired when the British showed up were for show; if word got back they'd not "put up a fight", well, there was no shortage of piano wire and meathooks....

As to the utter nonsense about the German BBs "doing their job": The only reason they lasted as long as they did was the sheer inexperience of the Royal Navy, which in the Channel Dash demonstrated it couldn't sink a target in broad daylight within sight of its own home bases. The German BBs certainly didn't stop the deployment of large chunks of the British fleet to the Med (where most British large-ship losses occurred), nor did they so much as slow down the trans-Atlantic convoys -- that superannuated incompetent fool Pound did more damage to British convoys than the German navy ever did.

[David Manley]

Ballard's expedition did no such thing.

[Union Jack]

WOW. Can I pick my head up off the ground please. Although I never mentioned damage, I meant tying down ships. 1 ship tying down many. Graf Spee, Tirpitz, Bismark, Scharnhorst, Gneisenau in pairs or on their own tied down many more ships that could have been used elsewhere. Although in the Med if you compare aircraft lost (Axis) to ships sunk (Allied), then you might find the exchange not one sided. 3 Naval engagements put the Italian navy out of the game. British naval losses in the far east were heavy too. Bismark scuttled, methinks you're thinking of Graf Spee. Bismark was sunk end of.

Neil

_Bismarck_ was scuttled -- Ballard's expedition proved that beyond doubt. The shots fired when the British showed up were for show; if word got back they'd not "put up a fight", well, there was no shortage of piano wire and meathooks....

As to the utter nonsense about the German BBs "doing their job": The only reason they lasted as long as they did was the sheer inexperience of the Royal Navy, which in the Channel Dash demonstrated it couldn't sink a target in broad daylight within sight of its own home bases. The German BBs certainly didn't stop the deployment of large chunks of the British fleet to the Med (where most British large-ship losses occurred), nor did they so much as slow down the trans-Atlantic convoys -- that superannuated incompetent fool Pound did more damage to British convoys than the German navy ever did.

[Union Jack]

As an aside I know this is naval orientated but should it not be on the 'Drome site. I thought this was for sailing ships and hearts of oak. Not smelly, noisey oily things that belch smoke and fire beyond horizons.

Neil

[7eat51]

Neil, why would we ever start the practice of staying on-point in a thread, in a forum, or on a site?

[Nightmoss]

I've been reading about the Bismarck campaign for decades and that's the first I've heard of it.

Thanks, David. As I said I was surprised to hear this.

As an aside I know this is naval orientated but should it not be on the 'Drome site. I thought this was for sailing ships and hearts of oak. Not smelly, noisey oily things that belch smoke and fire beyond horizons.

Neil

I did choose the Wardroom, which is a wide open forum discussion area. Certainly the flight aspects in the battle should be on the Aerodrome, if they aren't already, but part of the reason I posted this relates to some other discussions concerning 'iconic' ships of war.

[Popsical]

_Bismarck_ was scuttled -- Ballard's expedition proved that beyond doubt. The shots fired when the British showed up were for show; if word got back they'd not "put up a fight", well, there was no shortage of piano wire and meathooks....

To say the absolute beasting the Bismark received from guns of all sizes was "for show" is a trifle absurd. I doubt any sailor onboard the Bismark would do much less than slap you for saying so! Had she not been hammered into submission, who is to say the rudder would not have been fixed and safety reached?

I have Ballards book on my lap now. The torpedo damage to her hull was "mortal", two of the port and two starboard holes were "clearly sufficient to sink her without the aid of scuttling charges".

Further more, one of the swordfish attacks torpedo strikes did far more damage than originally thought till her rediscovery, causing flooding and her initial list to port. The guns of the RN turned her into a wreck, the torpedoes sank her, the scuttling charges hastened this by minutes at most. Ballard and his team confirmed this. Ballard even goes on to say that although Tovey ordered the torpedoing because he was not sure the guns could sink Bismark, he was wrong, the guns had done enough damage. Tovey closed the distance to Bismark as the shelling continued and thus lost the advantage of plunging fire, however it turned the proceedings into a savage mauling, a "death by a thousand cuts".
It is not known why he did this for sure, but one must surely speculate that this was revenge for Hood.

[7eat51]

I did choose the Wardroom, which is a wide open forum discussion area. Certainly the flight aspects in the battle should be on the Aerodrome, if they aren't already, but part of the reason I posted this relates to some other discussions concerning 'iconic' ships of war.

And this is exactly what the Wardroom is for.

[Rafer J Larwood]

My late uncle was a gunnery office on HMS Rodney during the battle, not sure he would agree with the view the Bismark was scuttled.
Sounds to me like a documentary maker trying to stir up some controversy, funny how none of the countless previous documentaries on this ever even hinted at it.

[7eat51]

All this talk about WWII naval activity has me wondering if I should keep the A&A WaS stuff sitting here on my table. You guys cost me money, you know.

This conversation reminds me of a paper I just submitted moments ago. I am writing a dissertation, and in the literature review, I have research studies that demonstrate contradictory positions - oh, the joy of researching and writing. This is one reason I am oriented toward qualitative than quantitative research in the non-hard sciences, of which I would place history. This is, also, one of the reasons I advocate epistemological humility, that we make our knowledge claims with the awareness that we could be wrong. We must always remember that a map is not the territory.

[Union Jack]

My apologies my reply was a bit tongue in cheek intended.

And this is exactly what the Wardroom is for.

[7eat51]

No apology necessary, my Friend.

[Rafer J Larwood]

As an aside I know this is naval orientated but should it not be on the 'Drome site. I thought this was for sailing ships and hearts of oak. Not smelly, noisey oily things that belch smoke and fire beyond horizons.

Neil

Wooden ships and iron men Neil...perfectly put, lol

[Popsical]

Just finished watching "Sink the Bismarck!" (Kenneth More, Dana Wynter), still a fantastic movie.
Watching those remote controlled model WW2 battleships blasting away is giving me ideas about buying and painting them.

[7eat51]

Just finished watching "Sink the Bismarck!" (Kenneth More, Dana Wynter), still a fantastic movie.
Watching those remote controlled model WW2 battleships blasting away is giving me ideas about buying and painting them.

Sue and I are working through our British war movie collection (I will post about this sometime soon). I find these movies like a comfortable friend, a period of time in which I can relax, familiarly.

[Popsical]

Your quite right Eric, those old movies are still good because they don't seek to shock like modern movies. It allows you be comfortable whilst watching them, which is relaxing.
Happy viewing.

[Coog]

They are great movies. I often find them on You Tube and watch them.

Here's another good one:

[Coog]

And for those who do not have Sink the Bismark:

[7eat51]

Thanks for Dunkirk, Bobby. That is just the ticket this week.

Steve, that makes a lot of sense. I didn't think about that. I still remember watching Saving Private Ryan. George, Colleen, Sue and I went to see it. I don't think we spoke the whole way home. Those first 30 minutes were exhausting. I can't imagine getting comfortable in preparation for that film.