Game Accessories of Interest

[John Paul]

Figured I would park this under the General Discussion heading as it seemed appropriate. I've read how there are some who found the placing of chits on the Ship Mats as a bit fiddly and all. Well here's an idea I found while placing an order for more card sleeves from Mayday. They offer wooden cubes in a variety of colors and two sizes 8mm and 10mm, with colors being red, black, blue, natural wood, green, purple, yellow, white, and yes even pink! In case you happen to be playing a game against your wife or girl friend! Instead of using the chits when a box on your ship mat is full one could just as easily place a wooden cube to indicate the box has been filled. Then you wouldn't have to fiddle with all those chits.

You could use different colors for different ships, sides, ship damage, crew loss, or whatever combination you desire. Even if you choose to use the paper style Mats these could still be used as markers as you see fit. Naturally if the mat gets bumped the cubes will likely be displaced just as the chits would, but their replacement on the mat might be a little more easily figured out. At $7.95 - $8.95 for 100 cubes depending on what size you buy there would surely be enough to go around in the average game. Anyway, I thought I would pass this one along!!

[HMS Lydia]

Interesting. I think many consider the chits fiddly, because it leaves more flotsam on the table (not because they are chits). The issue is a table bump, or someones spare tire Improperly stowed in their jeans and t-shirt moving items around on the card. Most people are going to paper/pencil, or laminated grease pencil/dry erase marker cards. Table can collapse, may break models, but the record keeping remains unchanged.

Personally, I think Ares lost out on an opportunity to sell a good, game enhancing accessory. Especially considering the number of chits required to play the Advanced version of the rules. Eliminating chits speeds play and helps to maintain consistent record keeping throughout the scenario.

Just my $.02.

Bob

[John Paul]

I think in the age of "Green" Ares desired to stay away from paper ship's logs as are so often present in naval type games. I mean would anyone be happy receiving a folded up paper ship log in each ship box?
Or worse, having to order/purchase a pad of pre-printed ship logs separate from the game and extra ships such as the counter sheets?

While you still have to rely on pulling chits for damage in game play one also has to rely on each player to accurately record that damage on paper, so the time savings may be nominal! As pointed out above when a player is a little clumsy at least the record keeping is not tossed about to delay the game. However one wishes to work with the game simplicity is always attractive!!

[fredmiracle]

Paper doesn't seem desirable, so Ares made a comprehensible and possibly correct choice. But paper is SOOOOO much better in practice. Ares should host a simple log maker/printer Web page as a value add for players tired of fiddling with chits...

[John Paul]

Paper doesn't seem desirable, so Ares made a comprehensible and possibly correct choice. But paper is SOOOOO much better in practice. Ares should host a simple log maker/printer Web page as a value add for players tired of fiddling with chits...

That would seem like a nice complimentary idea, that hopefully soon they will latch on to for the value of all the fans of the game!!

[TexaS]

An electronic version would be very much easier to handle at the table, but it could never replace an analog version completely.

I prefer my own iPhone-app for keeping track of my ship(s), but I also have paper printouts because they don't clutter up the table, the player can keep it in their hand when not moving their ship, and they're bump safe.

[HMS Lydia]

The chit versus paper/pencil versus laminated/grease marker, appears to be evenly split (actually chits are probably in the majority). The paper/pencil - laminated/marker are in actuality different applications of the same idea. In this age of Green, I don't want to burn down forests to play the game. So I make one chart for each ship, laminate it, mark it with an erasable pen. Clean it after you play, and your done.

By the way I have played with the chits, and the marked logs do not slow down play more than the chits, its about the same. The dice damage system slowed the game way down. Although I prefer a more random damage distribution (and I think the dice chart provided that, recording the numbers and then reordering them, and then marking the charts was too time consuming.

So to summarize, I don't think Ares should have done laminated or paper charts/logs and put them in the ship boxes, I do believe they would have made an excellent accessory. I even like Fred's idea of providing it as a down load. I like Fred's logs, they are just too plain to laminate (which was never his intent anyway).

[HMS Lydia]

Guys, we've talked about this in many threads. I started a poll, it would be interesting to see what the results are.

[TexaS]

I'm not sure that laminating and using those plastic marker pens filled with chemicals which dry out are more green than recycled paper and a reusable pencil.

With my gaming frequency it's negligible anyway.

[HMS Lydia]

I don't think modern dry erase markers have any toxic chemicals in them. Alcohol is probably the most questionable substance. But I prefer grease pencil anyway.

[Nightmoss]

I'll be repeating what's been said before, but I do prefer the chits for the level of excitement it brings to the table.

However, having just finished setting up and taking down half a dozen solo tests in the last week or so I'm getting to the point where I would much prefer a simpler ship log system for keeping track of damage, etc. That leaves a paper or laminated/paper log system as one I'm looking at.

So, I'll be keeping the chits and moving towards a laminated surface and china markers (grease pencils) for stats keeping. Yes, I voted in the poll.

[TexaS]

Drawing chits and marking off on (laminated)paper/device is what I prefer.
I wouldn't mind laminated paper, and those could probably use the original graphics, or just slightly modified graphics. That's a bonus.

[John Paul]

As an old board gamer the one thought that is always in the back of my head, especially after an evening where we've played three or four games is; "Have I recovered ALL the chits (counters)????"

That's not made as a comment for or against. It's just one of those things that is always on my mind when I'm picking things up at the end of play!! If you've ever lost an important piece from a game it's a maddening thing!!!

[7eat51]

or someones spare tire Improperly stowed in their jeans and t-shirt moving items around on the card

That's great, unfortunately true, but great. At least the Age-of-Sail players I have encountered bathe.

An electronic version would be very much easier to handle at the table

I have heard it rumored that there is at least one member on the Anchorage who does not even use a cell phone.

I do prefer the chits for the level of excitement it brings to the table

That's why I have adopted the chit and replacement method. Folks do like seeing those chits hit the table and arranging them for a final tally. It's like receiving a damage report from around the ship.

[John Paul]

Eric, I nearly spewed a mouthful of water all over my keyboard over your comment above about bathing!!!!

Would that classify as a shower rather then a bath??

[Mycenius]

I'm not sure that laminating and using those plastic marker pens filled with chemicals which dry out are more green than recycled paper and a reusable pencil.

Actually most recycled paper that is good enough quality to write on uses about x1.5 the energy to process, and produces considerably more toxic byproduct chemicals, than the production of virgin paper (from wood pulp) - and it's usually lower quality to boot - given that timber is a renewable resource and easily grown and milled recycling paper products BACK INTO writable paper format is one of the most illogical and counter productive processes ever devised!

[Mycenius]

...At least the Age-of-Sail players I have encountered bathe.

Oh to be so lucky!

[TexaS]

Actually most recycled paper that is good enough quality to write on uses about x1.5 the energy to process, and produces considerably more toxic byproduct chemicals, than the production of virgin paper (from wood pulp) - and it's usually lower quality to boot - given that timber is a renewable resource and easily grown and milled recycling paper products BACK INTO writable paper format is one of the most illogical and counter productive processes ever devised!

It used to be like that back in the 80-ies. For some weird reason Sweden which is filled with big forests and produce and export a lot of both wood and paper also developed ways of recycling in ways that is environmentally friendly.

[HMS Lydia]

Laminated cards are as green at the supplied ship mats, since the can be reused an unlimited amount of times.

[DeRuyter]

Laminated cards are as green at the supplied ship mats, since the can be reused an unlimited amount of times.

Written on with grease pencils containing no chemicals!

[7eat51]

As to bathing, our FLGS put various grooming aids in the bathroom to help gamers not be too offensive, bodily, to others.

As to being green, I cannot imagine Ares having too large of an environmental footprint.

[csadn]

As to bathing, our FLGS put various grooming aids in the bathroom to help gamers not be too offensive, bodily, to others.

The San Jose Worldcon in 2002 had "The Great Washed Masses" -- folk in bathrobes carrying signs:

"LATHER, RINSE, REPENT!"
"ABSOLUTION THROUGH ABLUTION!"

5-2-1 24-7, baby.

[Mycenius]

It used to be like that back in the 80-ies. For some weird reason Sweden which is filled with big forests and produce and export a lot of both wood and paper also developed ways of recycling in ways that is environmentally friendly.

Well as recently as 10 years ago recycling plants in places like the USA, Australia/NZ, Asia were still that style AFAIK - you Swedes are just too damn smart! That type of recycling where renewable sources & biodegradable waste product are concerned is kinda pointless - like inventing an icemaker for Eskimos...

[TexaS]

We Swedes are selling sand to the Saudis so we're kind of already there.

[TexaS]

By the way... We don't use landfills but recycle or burn for energy, with extremely good purification, more or less all our garbage. Biodegradable waste is used for making biogas (I'm guessing methane) for the buses.

[csadn]

By the way... We don't use landfills but recycle or burn for energy, with extremely good purification, more or less all our garbage. Biodegradable waste is used for making biogas (I'm guessing methane) for the buses.

So -- your economy is built on nothing but fartgas.... >;)

[TexaS]

Seeing the Swedish crown loose value compared to the dollar, I'd say our economy was inflated. Just a lot of hot air...

[Mycenius]

We Swedes are selling sand to the Saudis so we're kind of already there.

But are you getting a good price...?

[Mycenius]

By the way... We don't use landfills but recycle or burn for energy, with extremely good purification, more or less all our garbage. Biodegradable waste is used for making biogas (I'm guessing methane) for the buses.

So -- your economy is built on nothing but fartgas.... >;)

Seeing the Swedish crown loose value compared to the dollar, I'd say our economy was inflated. Just a lot of hot air...

Well here in the Antipodes we are introducing a Fart Tax for Cows - because of how much dairy production we do... So Farmers have to pay for the methane their cows release into the air! Total nonsense of course and based on some of the shoddiest scientific theory ever hypothesised in the world - but that's the flock of sheep mentality for you... (errr, no pun intended given the number of sheep here too).

So maybe that trumps Sweden's fart powered buses? At least they are doing something constructive that makes them self sufficient...



Q: If a Swedish Bus runs out of fuel - can it get an emergency fill up from it's passengers?

[TexaS]

Q: If a Swedish Bus runs out of fuel - can it get an emergency fill up from it's passengers?

Only on Thursdays when many people eat pea-soup.

[Mycenius]

Only on Thursdays when many people eat pea-soup.

I'll remember NOT to take the bus if I am ever in Stockholm on a Thursday!!!!

[csadn]

Q: If a Swedish Bus runs out of fuel - can it get an emergency fill up from it's passengers?

Finally -- a use for surstomming.... >:)

[Lugburz]

Instead of using the chits when a box on your ship mat is full one could just as easily place a wooden cube to indicate the box has been filled. Then you wouldn't have to fiddle with all those chits. You could use different colors for different ships, sides, ship damage, crew loss, or whatever combination you desire.

The other immediate advantage, that no one else seemed to mention, is that using wooden cubes to mark filled boxes on the ship's log would help players cycle "pulled" chits back into the draw bag/cup. As it is, players are faced with a finite number of chits per damage type, however once you've filled up a box on your log, the completed box chits are now rendered irrelevant. If you were savvy at filching cubes from other games on your shelf (I'm looking at you Pandemic), you could probably stand to get away with only one set of damage counters and still field a larger number of vessels per combat scenario. I haven't tried the OP's idea, but I like it!

[7eat51]

Keegan, I've gone to laminated ship logs. At present, I am uploading a simplified version of the ship logs I use. Players seem to like the laminated logs, and we replace chits after every turn - addresses he running out of chits and keeps the probabilities more stable.

[Bligh]

I tried out your logs last week Eric and found them fine.
However, I do miss the paper charts we used to use, as it left you with a permanent record of every game you had played, and how it went.
I will nevertheless continue to use these rub off versions as they are so time saving especially when packing up.
Rob.

[7eat51]

The nice thing about the logs is that you can print paper copies. But hasn't the world gone paperless? Funny how much I print off since going green.