"Target is Missed and Takes No Damage"

[NimitsTexan]

The rules for the special ammo state that, if that target base is not within the red/purple area, "the target is missed and takes no damage." Yet, in the basic rules, it tells you you can measure out who is within range before choosing who to attack. My question is, if you are measuring before you are firing, why would you ever "miss" the target with special ammo. Are the rules implying that you are not allowed to measure before announcing an attack in the Standard/Advanced Rules?

[Union Jack]

That's the way we play it. No pre-measuring. If you say you're firing, you're firing. We played a game recently where we both missed with our initial broadside. We had a laugh about it afterwards.

[7eat51]

We, also, have players shoot if they were going to shoot based upon what is happening on the table, and not wait until they hear what their adversaries are doing. If you were going to take the shot, then take the shot regardless of whether an opponent shoots or holds or …. It is a gentlemen's, or ladies', game, so behave accordingly. If you don't want to, you're free to find another table. This came up at Origins last year, and when I gave the ruling, everyone willingly agreed, and the spirit at the table was wonderful. Regardless of the outcome, everyone seemed to enjoy themselves.

[DeRuyter]

Hmm, I may have to try no pre-measurement. May really be harsh for the French with the Poor Gunner rule though!

A bit like the new computer game Naval Action - you have to estimate the fall of the shot, get it wrong and splash! You can fire a ranging shot though (not good if you have a 4 gun schooner!). Aiming in the game is complete with pitching deck and firing on the up roll at long range, etc.

[Nightmoss]

Hmm, I may have to try no pre-measurement. May really be harsh for the French with the Poor Gunner rule though!

A bit like the new computer game Naval Action - you have to estimate the fall of the shot, get it wrong and splash! You can fire a ranging shot though (not good if you have a 4 gun schooner!). Aiming in the game is complete with pitching deck and firing on the up roll at long range, etc.

Andrea has responded to this question on BoardGameGeek.

"Youy can not mneasure before shooting" is a pretty common rule in miniature wargaming. I found it in War Games Rules 3000 BC to 1485 AD 5th edition, back in 1980 when I started playing "real" wargames: you gave an order to shoot to your Egyptian archers or catapults or whatever, you declared a target and after you measured arcs and ranges to see if the target was actually available. If it was not, bad for you - a bad general who was not able to judge distances.
This kind of rule is actually the most used in 3D wargames as far as I know.
In Wings of War: Famous Aces I preferred to be kinder to players and allow them to check the arc of fire and range before choosing one of the possible targets. It is possible to houserule the opposite, but it is not in the official rules.
A "fingerprint" confirming that X-Wing is derived from WoW and not developed from scratch, IMHO, is that in X-Wing you measure before choosing the target, as in WoW, and not after, as in most wargames.
Rules for "declare first, measure after" are still in WoW/Wings of Glory for some optional and advanced rules, as in bombing.

House Rules can always alter this if you want to be 'kinder to players'?

As for Naval Action, firing is extremely difficult from smaller ships; nearly impossible in a storm, which I've played once. Supposedly it gets better when you move on to the larger vessels, but I'm still stuck in a Cutter.

[David Manley]

LOL, saying that pre-measurement of ranges in X Wing is a "fingerprint" to WOG is just plain silly. Might as well just say it was developed from Skyfight, Air War C21, Harpoon or WRG modern rules 1950-1985 (and a thousand others that recognise the existence of optical, radar and laser rangefinding systems)

Unless of course one is prepared to accept that WOG is actually derived from WRG ancients or Fred Janes naval rules since of course they didn't allow pre-measurement either!

[David Manley]

[QUOTE=DeRuyter;42648]Hmm, I may have to try no pre-measurement.[QUOTE]

I generally allow it in most games, especially with inexperienced players, since the aim of the game is for the players to have fun and I also (reasonably) expect that the imaginary sailors crewing the ships are at least marginally competent and thus able to judge ranges quite well. When you have played it a few times then maybe....

[NimitsTexan]

Andrea has responded to this question on BoardGameGeek.

I was not really clear what the answer was, however . . .

[fredmiracle]

I was not really clear what the answer was, however . . .

'Twas a bit roundabout but the gist was: yes you can measure before declaring attacks, with the reason being that he decided to be more forgiving to the players than many minis rules...

[7eat51]

I think it would depend on the audience. Most of the players in my games are not hard-core war-gamers. Most, in fact, show up because we're friends, or are folks we invite in who are standing by watching. If using pre-measurement increases their enjoyment of our time together, so be it. In the end, like most things, I think it depends upon the purpose of the game session and the assembled players.

[Popsical]

I always use premeasuring, it means shots arent wasted and makes the game more decisive. In my mind the 0 damage chits represent misses perfectly well.

[Mycenius]

I always use premeasuring, it means shots arent wasted and makes the game more decisive. In my mind the 0 damage chits represent misses perfectly well.

Agreed!

And the rules do say that's the one time you can premeasure I believe - when deciding to fire and who to fire at...

[John Paul]

Also, don't forget this rule is meant to simulate the gun crews having loaded "special" shot are then forced to "clear" the guns in order to load with regular shot. Once the guns are loaded the only way to "clear" them for reloading is to fire them even if it is a wasted shot!

[Mycenius]

Also, don't forget this rule is meant to simulate the gun crews having loaded "special" shot are then forced to "clear" the guns in order to load with regular shot. Once the guns are loaded the only way to "clear" them for reloading is to fire them even if it is a wasted shot!

Yep, Definitely! Although that has no bearing on pre-measuring or not...

[John Paul]

Pre-measuring is not a big deal in the games I've run as most experienced gamers have an eye for distance to some degree anyway. Besides we play the game to have fun!