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Thread: Stretching Sculpts: SGN105 Hebe 40 Gun Frigates

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    Default Stretching Sculpts: SGN105 Hebe 40 Gun Frigates

    Alright Diamondback I started the topic, need you brilliant insight to tell us where we can use and abuse this mold. Do you think, for instance that Ares will do a Leda, or should we just go ahead and substitute?

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    Leda is almost bang-on identical--it's the French lines and aesthetics mated with British internal engineering, so I'll bet we see an SGN105 re-run as Ledas when Ares gets around to War of 1812. Let me wrap up a few things and I'll try to get a table built like the other "Stretching Sculpts" threads in the next few days.

    In the meantime, though, I would have no qualms whatsoever about using the two British Hebes to stand in for Ledas in smaller battles. If you want to trace the lineage up its evolution, it goes through the Virginie 40's, then into the Hortense 40's, and finally with a little stretching on length into the Pallas 40/44's.

    Thanks for the nudge, amigo.

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    No worries, thought I'd leave a small reminder. Trying to decide if I want to invest in additional models.

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    So, I'm going to make this observation knowing that folks from Ares read this board.

    As an old Flight Instructor I knew liked to preface truly important lessons, "Let me make this Perfectly Clear..." It would take a Complete Bloody MORON to not re-run SGN105 as a full wave of Ledas at some point in the future. These ships were the backbone of both the French and British medium-frigate forces from the day Hebe was launched up to the end of the Napoleonic Wars--were it up to me I would have a core list of "Ships to Run A Batch Of Every Year", and this sculpt would have two slots on that list. Take a look at this chart I built, and scroll down to the line for SGN105:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0

    It's a SCARY-huge list, almost as bad as the Slade 74's and Temeraires.

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    Admiral of the White
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    Funny you should bring up the SGN105. It's the only frigate of the Wave 2 shipment that I received with a broken foremast (HMS Sybille). I've already repaired it and taken down the mainmast as well to make it stronger.

    It's a very nice sculpt and I'm looking forward to doing some extra work on it. It's also a Wave 2 ship that I plan on picking up more than just a couple of copies.

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    And, while I don't have a lot of data to fill it in readily available (I need to create another database extract for 1782-1815 38- to light 44-gun frigates), I'm going to start the Official Sculpt Stretch Table for SGN105 in this post.

    Can work for or released as Minor mod Maybe New Sculpt Unknown
    1782 Hebe
    Leda
    1794 Virginie
    1800 UK Leda
    ?1800 Consolante
    1802 Hortense
    ?1804 Armide
    1805 Pallas
    ?1805 Milanaise
    UK Lively
    Last edited by Diamondback; 08-09-2014 at 12:57. Reason: revise data

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    Funny you should bring up the SGN105. It's the only frigate of the Wave 2 shipment that I received with a broken foremast (HMS Sybille). I've already repaired it and taken down the mainmast as well to make it stronger.

    It's a very nice sculpt and I'm looking forward to doing some extra work on it. It's also a Wave 2 ship that I plan on picking up more than just a couple of copies.
    I bought 2 extra French and 2 extra British Hebe class. Thinking I might want to go larger. It would really help to know the coversion factors to determine what will substitute for what. Obviously Hebe-Leda since Leda was a copy of the previous design. But when you look at burden versus BM on the actual ship (and I assume this is what they use), I can't seem to be able to work the formula.

    I remember in the good old days when many miniature games rules explained how they determined the values for a unit. Or at the game distance/time scale.

    Diamonback, thanks, these charts are very helpful.

    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by HMS Lydia View Post
    I bought 2 extra French and 2 extra British Hebe class. Thinking I might want to go larger. It would really help to know the coversion factors to determine what will substitute for what. Obviously Hebe-Leda since Leda was a copy of the previous design. But when you look at burden versus BM on the actual ship (and I assume this is what they use), I can't seem to be able to work the formula.

    I remember in the good old days when many miniature games rules explained how they determined the values for a unit. Or at the game distance/time scale.

    Diamonback, thanks, these charts are very helpful.

    Bob
    I know there's been some discussion of the 'rules determining value of units' on the forums, but I can't recall what thread or how long ago that might have been. Same for game scale and distance/time. A search might get you to those, but more likely others here might point you to them?

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    A little offtopic but related: while were at it, could somebody check out the SS thread on the Temeraires?

  10. #10

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    Thanks to broken masts and whatnot, I will (presumably) at some point have more of these frigates than I originally planned. At first I was thinking about buying a double batch of Hebe's, with the idea that they could represent many frigates on both sides. But then I began to think that Ares might do a British 38/40 sooner rather than later (whether as a repaint or a new model) and maybe then I'd have too many, so I only bought a single batch.

    I do love collecting these ships--it's nice to feel you have them all, and can play "both sides" of a given model at the same time if you want. It's fun to buy toys, and more ships does give a feeling of variety when so many games are "2 frigates against 2 frigates".

    On the other hand, the truth is that they aren't all that distinguishable either visually or statistically, I have to store them somewhere, and the fact is that I haven't yet put more than 8 ships on the table at one time. So I keep trying to maintain a sane posture on my purchases.

    Can't wait to find out more about Ares' future plans...

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    Some more data: there was a competitor design the the Hebes, J-M-B Coulomb's 1782 Minerve class which was another six-pack. Looking for draughts for comparison.

    Also, per naval historian Stephen S Roberts, the following classes are all variations on the Hebe theme...
    8x 1800 Consolante (Pestel): 1800 Consolante, 1804 Piemontaise->1808 HMS Piedmontaise, 1806 Italienne, 1807 Danae, 1808 Bellone->1810 HMS Junon, 1808 Nereide->1811 HMS Madagascar, 1811 Illyrienne->1814 Hermione, 1812 Galatee
    9x 1804 Armide (Roland): 1804 Armide->1806 HMS Armide, 1805 Minerve->1806 HMS Alceste, 1806 Flore, 1806 Penelope, 1808 Amphitrite, 1808 Niemen->1809 HMS Niemen, 1810 Saale->1814 Amphitriite->1815 Saale->1815 Amphitrite, 1811 Alcmene->1814 HMS Dunira->1814 HMS Immortalite, 1811 Circe
    4x 1805 Milanaise (Segondat): 1805 Milanaise->1814 Sirene, 1808 Vistule->1814 Danae, 1813 Oder->1814 Themis, 1813 Perle

    IF Roberts' take is correct, this adds at least 21 new French and 7 new British reprints to the pool. I need to run down individual ship histories, see if the Spanish, Dutch or Austrians snagged any of these too.

    Plans...
    Armide as recommissioned
    Last edited by Diamondback; 07-01-2014 at 13:58.

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