The exposed position of a captain.

[Comte de Brueys]

Don't know why but I have the bad feeling that a captain of a ship in the Napoleonic Age was target number one in a battle combined with an exposed position on the quarterdeck (...and often with the most colorful uniform).

Example:

In the Action of 8 March 1795 there were 8 wounded French sailors (captain included) and 4 wounded British sailors. The British Captain was decapitated by a cannon shot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_8_March_1795

There are a lot of reports of Captains wich were took out very early in the battle.

[Naharaht]

You are correct. The marksmen in the fighting tops would try to kill the captain and other officers on the deck and the helmsmen. That is why some captains chose to wear fairly plain coats in battle rather than a uniform, which made them stand out.

[csadn]

Don't know why but I have the bad feeling that a captain of a ship in the Napoleonic Age was target number one in a battle combined with an exposed position on the quarterdeck (...and often with the most colorful uniform).

Horatio Nelson. Enough said.

[Comte de Brueys]

Don't know if he's the typical example.

He fought 4 1/2 hours in the battle.

[Diamondback]

Guerrilla Rule: "The guy with the most decoration on his uniform... is your FIRST target."
Restated as a more formal military doctrine: "Disrupt Command & Control."

[Пилот]

Don't know if he's the typical example.

He fought 4 1/2 hours in the battle.

He did, but was picked by sharpshooter. Officers are usual targets, if get recognized.

[David Manley]

One of the rules I added to later editions of "Form Line of Battle" was a chance that sharpshooters would KO the CO at the outbreak of a close quarter battle. Makes for some interesting variations (and disgruntled players when "they" are killed by a sniper's bullet)

[csadn]

Don't know if he's the typical example.

He fought 4 1/2 hours in the battle.

"4 1/2 hours"? _Victory_ first fired about 12:45PM; Nelson was shot about 1PM, and spent most of the battle below deck coughing up his death rattle. (Even if we include when _Victory_ first started taking fire from the Combined Fleet, Nelson only lasted an hour.)

[Berthier]

Strangely no one picked off Hardy..

[Comte de Brueys]

"4 1/2 hours"? _Victory_ first fired about 12:45PM; Nelson was shot about 1PM, and spent most of the battle below deck coughing up his death rattle. (Even if we include when _Victory_ first started taking fire from the Combined Fleet, Nelson only lasted an hour.)

Nice to see you back here in this thread.

I took the time from the start of the battle 12:00 PM (when HMS Victory receives the first shots) to the time of his death 16:30 PM.

So we have 15 min versus 4 1/2 hours.



Wasn't a wonder that someone picked out Nelson in this situation of battle because the entire ship was under heavy fire from three enemy ships. He was in good company with many crew members of his ship.



HMS Temeraire needed to block the fire from enemy ships, otherwise Nelson would have been buried with his ship and crew.

Speaks for Villeneuve's survving abilities, that he wasn't killed.



So I had not the focus on such extreme main battles, but Napoleonic ship fights in general. Often the captian seems to be the one of the first persons that was wounded.

I guess the intend to keep always the overview on all aspects of the fight, to give the right command at the right time.



Remind me stangely on WW II German tank commanders that often fought with open command port (Kommandantenluke).

[Comte de Brueys]

One of the rules I added to later editions of "Form Line of Battle" was a chance that sharpshooters would KO the CO at the outbreak of a close quarter battle. Makes for some interesting variations (and disgruntled players when "they" are killed by a sniper's bullet)

Nice rule, David.

I think you use that for battles between SoLs.

HMS Victory had a Marines detachement of (around) 140 soldiers. I know that frigate had small soldier contingents of Marines, too.

[Пилот]

Closer to the fight, better control (but, also, better chances to get shot)...

Same happened at land battles, officer casualties during the Napoleonic period were high.

[7eat51]

One of the rules I added to later editions of "Form Line of Battle" was a chance that sharpshooters would KO the CO at the outbreak of a close quarter battle. Makes for some interesting variations (and disgruntled players when "they" are killed by a sniper's bullet)

What would be the practical effects in a SGN game? If using a captain card or some mechanism that grants the ship a bonus based on the captain, that would be straightforward - loss of said benefit. If no captain-benefit mechanism is in place already, would it be some form of the Lacking Training mechanism kicking in? With SGN, would the probability of killing the captain be based on the number of crew hits taken, then rolling a percentile die?

[Comte de Brueys]

The loss of the captain's benefit sounds good in addition with an extra crew damage marker.

I think there are somes ships which would increase their combat value if the captain is out of action...

[Naharaht]

The loss of the captain's benefit sounds good in addition with an extra crew damage marker.

I think there are somes ships which would increase their combat value if the captain is out of action...

They would if the first lieutenant was a better officer than the captain, which of course happens in the fictional stories.

[Diamondback]

Hmm... maybe crew-cards with Negative Abilities and negative point-values?

[Ducky]

What would be the practical effects in a SGN game? If using a captain card or some mechanism that grants the ship a bonus based on the captain, that would be straightforward - loss of said benefit. If no captain-benefit mechanism is in place already, would it be some form of the Lacking Training mechanism kicking in? With SGN, would the probability of killing the captain be based on the number of crew hits taken, then rolling a percentile die?

the Rules for captain abilities and the loss or wounding of a captain are described on the Ares download file about crew abilities

[Пилот]

What would be the practical effects in a SGN game?
...
If no captain-benefit mechanism is in place already, would it be some form of the Lacking Training mechanism kicking in? With SGN, would the probability of killing the captain be based on the number of crew hits taken, then rolling a percentile die?

Or maybe reducing number of crew actions, if average captain (with no benefit) was killed?

Perhaps, if crew was killed (depending on remaining crew boxes), markers (E damage would do the job) in agreed ratio should be drawn (say, 4 0s and 1X if 4 crew boxes are left). And if X is drawn, captain is incapacitated and number of crew actions will be reduced by 1.

Of course, percentile dice would probably do the job even better.

[kippryon]

the Rules for captain abilities and the loss or wounding of a captain are described on the Ares download file about crew abilities

Agreed.
Enough said.
(Consider the number of engagements, the number of ships involved, the percentage of the Captain being wounded - or killed. I believe you will find the percentage VERY low).
Amazing, given the various accounts - but true.

[csadn]

Nice to see you back here in this thread.

I took the time from the start of the battle 12:00 PM (when HMS Victory receives the first shots) to the time of his death 16:30 PM.

So we have 15 min versus 4 1/2 hours.

Remember: The winds that day were *very* light (it was, as it happened, quite literally The Calm before The Storm that night, when the British lost most of their prizes). It took _Victory_ most of four hours to cover the few hundred yards between "extreme cannon range" and actually penetrating the line (and being able to fight back). The general ineptitude of Combined Fleet gunnery, plus the bow-on angle-of-attack, meant that those four hours of fire were of marginal effectiveness; it wasn't until the British actually got into the CF line that the proper work began.

Wasn't a wonder that someone picked out Nelson in this situation of battle because the entire ship was under heavy fire from three enemy ships. He was in good company with many crew members of his ship.

It's worse than you think -- one of the first ships _Victory_ engaged was _Redoutable_; the French ship's captain, realizing his cannon crews were not brilliant, he was in a 74 surrounded by larger ships, and that the fighting would most likely be a musket range, had focused his crew training on boarding actions and sharpshooting -- sweep the deck, then board". And the French ship being a 2-decker vs. _Victory_'s 3 decks just put the sharpshooters in the fighting tops that much closer to the targets. That Nelson lasted 15 minutes, all factors considered, is almost miraculous.

[Comte de Brueys]

This information outclasses my comment, Sir.

I'll pay for the next drinks.