How common was it for a SOL to capture a frigate?

[fredmiracle]

I know in principle frigates were supposed to be able to outrun and outsail the bigger ships.

[Although I'm starting to think the speed differences weren't all that great (i.e. within the margins of whether your hull was weed-encrusted or whatever)--it seems like the SOLs could pack on so much sail that the better sailers among them could be pretty fast.]

Anyway, I remember in the O'Brien books, at least once Jack's frigate was captured by an SOL. Can't remember the details, I'm sure it involved the ships' relative positions to shore, etc. As I recall he tried every trick, but once the SOL could get off a reasonable warning shot he had to strike right away.

So I was wondering--was this an oddball occurrence, or was it not unusual for a frigate to be caught at the wrong place at the wrong time by a bigger opponent and have to surrender?

[Diamondback]

There were conditions where an SOL did have a distinct advantage over a frigate, like bad-weather fights (the bigger ship had more guns above water, while the frigate had to button up its entire main battery), and I'd call SOL takings of frigates almost as common as frigate-on-frigate captures.

[David Manley]

I wouldn't say they were as common. I don't have the figures to hand but my impression is that its an order of magnitude or two down. Wher eit did happen the frigate was often constrained in some way, for example trapped against the shore or in otherwise restricted waters. But its worth noting that the idea that frigates were better sailers than SoLs is at best a sweeping generalisation. As well as hull fouling effects some SoLS were naturally very good ships and performed as well as their smaller brethren in good weather, some frigates could be complete dogs, the sailing quality of a ship could be thrown out of kilter by poor stowage and hence poor trim, and in bad weather SoSL often had an advantage in seakeeping and ability to continue to carry a press of sail

[Gunner]

I was reading about an engagement on January 13th 1797 between the British Indefatigable 44 (a Razee 64) and the Amazon 36 against the French Droits de L'Homme 74. in strong winds SW off Ushant blowing on shore. After 5 hours of battle The Droits de L'Homme and the Amazon were wrecked off shore, but the Indefatigable was able to haul off. During the battle the French 74 was unable to use her 36 pounders, because of the heavy seas her port sills had water pouring into her lower gun decks cutting her firepower in half, with no mention of problems with the British frigates guns.

[Craig]

There were conditions where an SOL did have a distinct advantage over a frigate, like bad-weather fights (the bigger ship had more guns above water, while the frigate had to button up its entire main battery), and I'd call SOL takings of frigates almost as common as frigate-on-frigate captures.

AFAIK, the "guns awash" problem was mostly an issue for multi-deck ships (i.e. not frigates). The SOL advantage in heavy seas is one of greater inertia and taller masts; less buffeted by the weather, and less likely to lose the wind in wave troughs.

Mind you, this is based on an obsessive reading of Aubrey/Maturin, not any real historical research.

--
Craig

[DeRuyter]

AFAIK, the "guns awash" problem was mostly an issue for multi-deck ships (i.e. not frigates). The SOL advantage in heavy seas is one of greater inertia and taller masts; less buffeted by the weather, and less likely to lose the wind in wave troughs.

Mind you, this is based on an obsessive reading of Aubrey/Maturin, not any real historical research.

--
Craig

This is correct. In general terms the wind and sea state would affect the smaller ships speed and maneuverability advantage as Craig noted, while the larger SOL would not be able to use her lower deck battery (the larger guns). The larger, heavier ship is more stable and having a longer waterline would have a higher potential top speed. So a frigate or brig would also have to shorten sail and reduce speed much sooner than the SOL. Some of the scenes in Master & Commander so show the effects and risks of sailing with more sail that is prudent in heavy weather!

Gunner already mentioned Sir Edward Pellew's famous battle with the Droits de L'Homme. Still not a good proposition for a smaller frigate as you're still facing a much larger ship with a 24 lber battery! Having said that IMO it was not common for SOL to run down frigates or sloops unless the weather conditions were right or the smaller ship had rigging damage (ie USS Wasp captured by a 74 after her battle with the HMS Frolic.).

Eric

[Пилот]

So, guys, do you suggest: if there is strong wind during the game, SoL's fire power should be weaker then usual, together with frigate's movement slower then usual?

[Comte de Brueys]

Sounds like conditions on wich I would not start a fight, Nemanja.

Does strong wind always means heavy sea conditions, too?

(Sorry for this landman's question. )