Trying to run down a ghost ship, need some help...

**Diamondback** · 03-10-2014, 16:29

Well, I've been tearing into the French 38's and 40's built around the time of the Hebe/Virginie/Hortense/Pallas line, and I found this curious entry in the Wikipedia list:

Pénélope (40-gun one-off design by Jacques-Noel Sané, with 28 x 18-pounder and 12 x 8-pounder guns) launched 30 October 1788 at Brest – wrecked October 1788 in South Africa.

Not only are those dates not possible, I can't even FIND this ship in ThreeDecks or anywhere else.

Anyone with access to reliable French sources willing to try to help run this one down? Going by the trends of Sane's designs, she would be expected to be a transitional form between Hebe 38 and Virginie 40, but there's only 9" and about 20 tons bm difference between the two larger classes... not a lot of room for increment creep.

**DeRuyter** · 03-10-2014, 18:30

On the other hand the Wiki entry could be wrong.

**Diamondback** · 03-10-2014, 19:13

Also a valid possibilty... I'm trying to assume the positive, since the time cited is midway between the Hebe and Virginie classes and the time gap between the two was an awful long time for Sane to be out of the frigate business.

**Naharaht** · 03-11-2014, 00:08

I found this on http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=r...201788&f=false

Page 196 refers to the Penelope running aground.

It is also mentioned in the Wikipedia entry on the life of John Keating and in a list of south African shipwrecks http://www.sashipwrecks.com/WebL.htm in which it is named as 'La Penelope'.

**Diamondback** · 03-11-2014, 12:23

I think I saw it mentioned in Boudriot's History of the French Frigate 1650-1850 also, but I've noticed some cases where the author contradicts himself and that leads me to consider it a second-tier source unless I have independent corroboration.

**Naharaht** · 03-14-2014, 21:31

Here is an article about La Penelope: http://www.academieduvar.fr/oeuvres/...e%20mousse.pdf

It says that the specifications and contracts for the construction of the frigate are in the archives of the port of Brest for 1785 to 1788.

**Diamondback** · 03-15-2014, 10:05

Thanks, David. :) So, we know she existed... but she seems to have flown below Boudriot's radar somehow.

**fredmiracle** · 03-15-2014, 11:09

From google translate, it sounds like the ship did wreck in south africa in October 1788, but was "new" when it left Brest in July 1788? The month of completion must be slightly off. And I guess she didn't last long enough to compile much of a service record...