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Thread: Victory Conditions - Based on the Ares Point Values and Battlefleet Gothic Rules.

  1. #1
    Ordinary Seaman
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    Default Victory Conditions - Based on the Ares Point Values and Battlefleet Gothic Rules.

    I have been thinking about victory conditions for some time and think the system from the old space fleet battle game Battlefleet Gothic work rather well here. In that system ships were immensely valuable. Claiming the hulks of ships knocked out of action was of great value. There was also a priority placed in preserving the value of what you had left to minimize your losses. Often it would be worthwhile to disengage rather than let your vessel be taken out of action or claimed as a prize. With that in mind and using the new point values assigned by Ares I propose the following system:

    Surrendered Ship Rules must be used.

    Each Enemy Ship Struck or Destroyed: VP = Vessel's Point Value

    Each Enemy Ship Crippled (1/2 or MORE of the Ship Damage Boxes are FULL. Partials do not count and neither does crew, men are cheap while ships are expensive!): VP = 25% of its point value rounded up.

    Each Enemy Ship Disengaged (Fleeing the field): VP = 25% of its point value if crippled or 10% if not (rounding up).

    Holding the field (For the only player/side with active ships left in play): VP = 50% of each surrendered ship remaining on board, FRIEND OR FOE.


    EXAMPLE:

    Player A and Player B each have three 100 point ships.

    Player A: Forces one ship to Strike (100 points)
    Crippled one ship (25 points)
    Sinks one ship (100 points)
    Forced the crippled ship to flee the field (another 25 points)
    TOTAL SO FAR = 250 points

    Player B: Sunk one ship (100 points)
    Forced one ship to strike (100 points)
    Crippled one ship (25 points)
    TOTAL SO FAR = 225 points

    It actually looks pretty close right now but now we see who held the field.

    Player A held the field with one remaining crippled ship. Player A gains 50% of the value for ALL STRUCK SHIPS still afloat and on the board. (One of his own for 50 points and one enemy for 50 points). Player A earns 100 points for the two struck ships captured.

    FINAL SCORE:

    Player A = 350 points
    Player B = 225 points

    One key point that must be stressed, you CANNOT shoot at surrendered ships!

    I loved the way these victory points made Battlefleet Gothic games incredibly tense. The urge to keep a crippled ship around to fight constantly fought against the need to preserve its value and the horrible impact of not just losing it but possibly leaving it in enemy hands. Typically any victory with less than a 2:1 ratio of Victory Points was marginal while a 2:1 or greater was decisive. In the above example if player B had NOT fled the field and instead been forced to strike and claimed then he would have awarded player A an additional 50 points for the strike and 50 points for leaving it on the field. That would be 450 to 225 and been a DECISIVE victory instead of a marginal one.

    What does everyone think.

  2. #2

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    Interesting. I like the idea, although it comes across a bit complicated at first.

    A few thoughts/questions:

    1) does it artificially encourage the person with early success to run away? I sink one of your ships but I have 30% damage on my three ships. If I run away I get 100 pts and you get 30. That could be kind of annoying

    2) I wonder (just speculating) if damage accrues so fast in SoG, it's possible there won't be much of a window between "the ship is in bad shape, maybe I'd better get it out of here" and "whoops, we're sunk." If that were true, it would limit the value of the rule

    3) putting together 1 and 2, would these rules encourage you to try to hang around the edge so you can "get away" quickly if it seems opportune? That would highlight the arbitrary bounds of the map, etc.


    Again, I like it, just raising some questions for discussion or elaboration...

  3. #3
    Ordinary Seaman
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    Default

    Sinking outright usually isn't the norm. Leaving that struck ship will gain you another 50 making is an 80-100 point win, nothing to crow over. In Battlefleet Gothic, BFG, the cruisers had 8 hit points and battleships 12. Damage also accrued fast so in that respect it is very similar. The scoring encouraged you to really focus on eliminating enemies rather than piddling firepower away across the fleet.

    As to running away it was even easier in BFG as a ship could power down to permanently disengage by disappearing from sensors although trying it in close proximity to the enemy often failed.

    Pressing a successful attack or hanging in for a turnaround was always a gamble and I remember many a tense moment as I considered my odds of success and what the cost to my fleet could be.

    You also could add additional conditions such as no disengagement for the first 8 rounds without sacrificing full value depending on the scenario or only being safe to disengage off one side.

  4. #4

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    I like it. Simple enough to be Fun. If I can get a campaign started I'll use them.
    Thanks Ken

  5. #5
    Ordinary Seaman
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    Cleaned up some, formatted and clarified.

    Sails of Glory Victory Conditions

    By Ken Harkin
    Adapted from Battlefleet Gothic written by Andy Chambers

    · Surrendered Ship Rule Must Be Used.

    PV: POINT VALUE as listed by Ares for each ship.
    (Any Captain or Crew Special Abilities are added to the base PV for the ship)

    VP: VICTORY POINTS

    STRUCK: Any ship which has had all crew or damage boxes filled and not exploded or sunk.

    DESTROYED: Any ship which has exploded or sunk. Vessels which were on fire or had a leak when they struck are considered destroyed as the crew abandons ship and it continues to burn or sink.

    CRIPPLED: Any ship with 1/2 or MORE of the Ship Damage Boxes FULL. Partially filled does not count and neither does crew damage; men are cheap while ships are expensive!

    DISENGAGED: Any ship which flees the action area. This is normally the play mat but this may be in scenarios restricted to certain sides of the mat, a safe harbor, a fog bank, etc.

    Unless scenario rules allow it (such as entering a port) any ship which leaves the play area and whose point of exit is within the range ruler distance from any point of an active enemy ship after movement is concluded then that fleeing ship is considered DESTROYED. (This is to prevent hanging by the map exit and fleeing at the last second)

    CONTROLLING THE SEA: The player or side with any active ships left on the play area after ALL opposing ships have been STRUCK, DESTROYED, or DISENGAGED is considered to be CONTROLLING THE SEA.

    · Each Enemy Ship STRUCK or DESTROYED:
    o VP = PV of ship.

    · Each Enemy Ship CRIPPLED:
    o VP = 25% of its PV rounded up.

    · Each Enemy Ship DISENGAGED:
    o VP = 25% of its PV if CRIPPLED rounded up
    o VP = 10% if its PV is not CRIPPLED rounding up
    o Ships which leave the field from areas not designated as legal for DISENGAGING are considered DESTROYED.

    · CONTROLLING THE SEA:
    o VP = 50% of each STRUCK ship remaining on board, FRIEND OR FOE. Struck ships whose final movement card take them out of the play area or cause their destruction cannot be claimed.

    VICTORY of less than a 2:1 Margin = a MARGINAL VICTORY

    VICTORY of greater than a 2:1 Margin = a DECISIVE VICTORY



    EXAMPLE:

    Player A and Player B each have three 100 PV ships.

    Player A:
    Forces one ship to Strike (100 VP)
    Crippled one ship (25 VP)
    Destroys one ship (100 VP)
    The enemy Crippled ship then Disengaged (another 25 points) TOTAL SO FAR = 250 points

    Player B:
    Forces one ship to Strike (100 VP)
    Crippled one ship (25 VP)
    Destroys one ship (100 VP)
    TOTAL SO FAR = 225 points

    It actually looks pretty close right now but now we see who CONTROLLED THE SEA.

    Player A CONTROLLED THE SEA with one remaining Crippled ship.
    Player A gains VP = to 50% of the VP for ALL STRUCK SHIPS still on the board.
    · (One of his own for 50 VP and one enemy for 50 VP). Player A earns 100 VP for the two Struck ships.

    FINAL SCORE:

    Player A = 350 VP
    Player B = 225 VP

    This would be a MARGINAL VICTORY for Player A.

    In the above example if Player B had NOT Disengaged his Crippled ship and instead been forced to Strike and then he would have awarded player A an additional 50 VP for the Strike (full value for the ship) and 50 VP for it being left on the play area to be claimed.

    That would be 450 VP to 225 VP and been a DECISIVE victory instead of a marginal one.

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