Many modern computer games require you to log into their internet site to play. I refuse to play those games.
Many modern computer games require you to log into their internet site to play. I refuse to play those games.
You're required to log in here in order to post anything. What's the difference?Originally Posted by Andy Blozinski
A couple of things.
First I remain unconvinced that an app would be easy to use, even if one was made for all platforms. In principle it should be as easy as paper. But if you have several ships in play, coupled with limited screen size and input capabilities, then the pain getting a handful of chits into the app could easily eclipse the benefits.
The other thing is that while I think paper or grease pencil are ultimately better, the IDEA of having no tracking worksheets is probably very appealing to more casual gamers. It just sounds better.
So I can see how Ares ended up where they are...
Hi Fred,
Do you think folks find chits on a mat as less daunting than markings on a sheet? If so, that is interesting.
When I introduce the laminated logs/mats to players familiar with the game, I always receive a positive response. They view the lamination and markings as a solution or improvement to the issued chits and logs/mats. I guess in some ways, moving and placing chits could seem more like discrete actions as opposed to a continuous form of record keeping, but I have found the reality to be somewhat the opposite.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
It's precisely a question of perception vs. reality. The reality is just as you say. But I think any game with "bookkeeping" tends to be perceived as complicated and not for casual gamers. My feeling is that moving and placing chits doesn't sound like bookkeeping, until you start dealing with it and realize it is mildly annoying and could be done better...
I thought that is what you meant, and I agree. I think that is why prior players have responded positively to the laminated logs/mats. When I first received the KS games, I liked the chits, etc. Now, I will not use them anymore. As previously stated, I also like the idea of replacing the chits for consistent probabilities.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Dumb question time, Eric. If you're not using the chits anymore, what are you using? Dice, a random numbers generator or what? Just curious as the OP in this thread mentions D30 as a possible tool. Thanks.
No chits for record keeping. I am still using the damage chits, and with the laminated logs/mats, I can replace the chits maintaining the original probabilities. It works out great. I think I will use damage chits as opposed to dice because people seem to enjoy the flipping of the chits on the table and seeing what has happened. The same probably would be true with dice, but with replacement, the need/desire for dice has lessened.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Guys,
I requested permission to load specific charts in the download section. But because the charts are based on the copyrighted, I was told I could only post a template. I posted a template which was corrupted when the site went down (was hacked?). I didn't reload it because it was too confusing and even with instructions, people not familiar with Excel couldn't modify them.
I am willing to share them. If you will PM me your e-mail address I'll send you some. You will have to print them and them cut them down, and laminate them. Or you can print on demand and use pencil.
One side note, these charts are smaller and therefore take up less table space that the ones provided in the game by Ares. We started using a dice damage table, and then ended up using the damage chits. We take the chits and place them in neat little treasure chests. When the bags deplete to a certain level we refill that bag.
DeRuyter asked me why the British ships have two reload boxes. I added the extra load box in case you wanted to apply the poor gunnery training trait to a British ship. The card shown is an older version and these have been improved.
Last edited by HMS Lydia; 01-05-2015 at 10:21.
Not only are chits somewhat fun, but they serve to track the damage accrued within a given turn, while simultaneous damage is figured out. This becomes more important once you have multiple ships on each side.
We simply pile up the damage markers next to each ship that is targeted during a given gunnery phase. Once all the shooting is done we record the results and put all the chits back in the bag. Dice would add more overhead, since we would need to either keep a temporary tally somewhere, or mark the damage but remember that it was new and didn't affect the ship until next turn...
Yes, the dice tally is why we found the dice chart to be overly cumbersome. We pretty much mirror your method, except we discard chits into little treasure chests, until the bags are well depleted.
Thanks Eric. I thought that was what you were doing, but wanted to be sure. So, the laminated mats/logs are a bookkeeping convenience, and a good one at that. I do like the idea of returning the chits back to their bags to maintain the statistical probabilities. That's not something I've been doing in the solo games I've played so perhaps I need to rethink that part of the scenarios?
I've posted about this before, but maybe it's worth repeating for anyone new...
The paper/pencil ship mats I'm using can be made with the Excel file here:
http://sailsofglory.org/downloads.php?do=file&id=83
(Unfortunately it doesn't work with Open Office...)
There is a tab "Ship Mats". It has four ship-mats. For each of these mats, you can select the name box at the upper left, and then use a dropdown to select whichever ship you want. Based on that, all the rest of the data will be populated automatically. If you blank out the name, then the data will be blanked. The 4 mats will print on one 8x11" sheet of paper.
It is quite easy to mark damage, as well as the ammo status, actions, and sail status for each turn, using pencil (I say pencil, because occasionally you will need to erase, based on repairs, etc.) There are some suggested abbreviations at the bottom for indicating actions, ammo and sails.
The logs look like this (this is scaled down a bit):
I would love to see a web page that did this, so it wasn't restricted to Excel (but of course one nice thing about Excel is that you can add your own ships & stats to the first page of the worksheet, and then make ship mats using them)
Last edited by fredmiracle; 01-05-2015 at 11:35.
Other problems with going pure-digital:
1. Not every venue has Wi-Fi, and some of us don't like getting gang-raped on data rates. You'd need an Offline version.
2. Murphy's Law. Batteries die, gear goes belly-up--pencil and paper preserves a record, and doesn't move like the existing chits when some 1/4-ton Jabba the Hutt wannabe slams his bubble-butt into the table.
More later, gotta run for a bus.
Fred, I had to go searching, but I did find your spreadsheet on my system. I haven't printed anything out to date, but I recall the dropdown ship selection was certainly a nice feature.
I have a ships log for keeping track with a pencil (and eraser) instead of counters.
Some symbols are quite small...
I print two to an A4, but I don't think size is a big problem when you can walk around with it in your hand. You just have to keep track of your planned moves.
Jonas,I have a ships log for keeping track with a pencil (and eraser) instead of counters.
Some symbols are quite small...
I print two to an A4, but I don't think size is a big problem when you can walk around with it in your hand. You just have to keep track of your planned moves.
Nice, very nice. If this was in the box I may have gone for it.
Be safe
Rory
Guys,
I created a D30 damage chart, it was discussed in another thread somewhere. I quickly stopped using it. While I agree with Eric, that statistically you get a better damage flow, it slowed the game down too much. The damage chits are faster. By the way I sen Jim and Colby my latest version charts which are slightly different that what was scanned and posted previously. The dice didn't slow the game down that much, but players got impatient with it. I find passing the damage set bags around tedious. But anyway, its all personal preference.
I have now charted the new expansion ships (Spanish and new British ships), just waiting on the HMS Victory and USS Constitution.
Bob's charts are excellent! He sent me 6 samples back in early January. I've just not had the time to use them, but I certainly will at some point.
Bob, what I have found is that folks like it when I pull out and toss the damage chits on the table. Everyone gathers to see what is going to happen - almost like watching lottery balls. Because we use laminated ship logs/mats, I replace the chits. The only probability issue is within a given turn, but by using multiple damage chit sets, I mitigated the negative effects a bit.
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato
Yes I think this is the perfect way to play--draw the chits, record the damage, put them back in the bag.
Eric, I agree. I place drawn chits in small treasure/sea chests. But, I like your method better.
I've built my own assortment now, in which I combined two chit sets, but from one of them I dropped the fire damage, most of the large hits (3+) and some of the crew hits. Part of the reason was to get a higher proportion of sail and mast hits, but even so I think it's still too few.
Anyway I've only had time to play it once, so the jury is still out.
Great idea, Fred... I might just try that one!
There's an idea for Ares--an Upgrade Set that instead of paper chits, prints the chit's damage on a small black plastic ball--going for a "cannonball" effect. :)
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