CIRCVS MAXIMVS

[GreenLaborMike]

I've heard that, as well (I have the "I Made Steve Jackson Work On _Car Wars_" shirt >:) ), but if you'll forgive a small pun: I ain't buyin' it.

For one: Have you seen what the game aisles at Target and Wal-Mart look like these days? Most of it is the same stuff I was seeing when I was 5-10 years old -- _LIFE_, _Scrabble_, etc. Newest game from an actual gaming company I've seen in there was _Apples to Apples_ (the LEGO board games aren't by Gamers). _CW_ isn't for 5-10-year-olds (despite CW5's best efforts...); I doubt the stores will take much interest.

This means we're back to "traditional gaming", which is the market _CW_ was originally intended for. And the traditionals are the ones who want either 1" or 3".

Have you looked at Target on-line lately?

http://www.target.com/sb/games-puzzl...tc=762109|null

And take a look at Wal-Mart on-line:

http://www.walmart.com/browse/games-...alse&ic=32_32&

Just on the first page of these sites, I see Munchkin, Settlers of Catan, Pandemic, Dominion, Carcassonne, Ticket to Ride, etc. Some of the others are no longer for sale, but that's because they are typically carried during the holiday selling season (and only during the holiday selling season). And this doesn't consider Amazon, which sells just about every game currently published. Face it - strategy boardgaming has gone mainstream.

SJG's attempts at minis have ranged from poor to middling success. But Munchkin has made MILLIONS. And that didn't happen through FLGS's (sadly). SJG already has a relationship with mass merchandisers, and *my* suspicion is that they like it - a LOT. If they can sell millions of copies through Target, Wal-Mart, Amazon and others, then they will do whatever they can to make that happen.

This doesn't make SJG any more or less noble than your theory, but I think it's more likely. Whether it leads to a revised Car Wars that is as much (or more) fun to play than the original remains to be seen.

[DeRuyter]

Have you looked at Target on-line lately?

http://www.target.com/sb/games-puzzl...tc=762109|null

And take a look at Wal-Mart on-line:

http://www.walmart.com/browse/games-...alse&ic=32_32&

Just on the first page of these sites, I see Munchkin, Settlers of Catan, Pandemic, Dominion, Carcassonne, Ticket to Ride, etc. Some of the others are no longer for sale, but that's because they are typically carried during the holiday selling season (and only during the holiday selling season). And this doesn't consider Amazon, which sells just about every game currently published. Face it - strategy boardgaming has gone mainstream.

SJG's attempts at minis have ranged from poor to middling success. But Munchkin has made MILLIONS. And that didn't happen through FLGS's (sadly). SJG already has a relationship with mass merchandisers, and *my* suspicion is that they like it - a LOT. If they can sell millions of copies through Target, Wal-Mart, Amazon and others, then they will do whatever they can to make that happen.

This doesn't make SJG any more or less noble than your theory, but I think it's more likely. Whether it leads to a revised Car Wars that is as much (or more) fun to play than the original remains to be seen.

Target just had X-Wing core sets at 50% off (I had to get a third!). Barnes and Noble also carries the titles you mention above.

I have also seen a rise in the trend of cooperation games like Pandemic. There certainly seems to be a number of successful FLGS's despite the mass market, including Amazon. Does this mean that the teenagers, and college age gamers are coming out from behind their phones and computers for FtF play? Maybe so, but unfortunately not it seems in historical gaming.

[GreenLaborMike]

Target just had X-Wing core sets at 50% off (I had to get a third!). Barnes and Noble also carries the titles you mention above.

I have also seen a rise in the trend of cooperation games like Pandemic. There certainly seems to be a number of successful FLGS's despite the mass market, including Amazon. Does this mean that the teenagers, and college age gamers are coming out from behind their phones and computers for FtF play? Maybe so, but unfortunately not it seems in historical gaming.

My understanding is that FLGS's are slowly dwindling. It's a bit ironic that as gaming goes mainstream, FLGS do not always share in the good fortune. The rise of the internet and mass merchandisers makes it impossible for brick and mortar stores to compete on price. My very favorite FLGS, The Little Soldier in Alexandria, VA, closed many years ago, and I will never fully recover from that.

On the bright side, those that succeed are becoming real hubs of the gaming community, by offering playing space, snacks/food, and organized game play. It's wonderful to see. I'm a big fan of supporting FLGS', and I am very fortunate to live in an area with four of five within a 10 mile radius (It's one of the benefits of living in a dense metropolis like Oakland/Berkeley). They are almost all populated by young people - middle and high school and college students. This is especially true of the game store next to UC Berkeley.

On the issue of historical wargaming, I think it's necessary to accept that, while the market will wax and wane somewhat, it will always remain something of a niche in the gaming community. Sails of Glory will never sell 5+ million copies like Ticket to Ride. But at least it can enlarge the navel wargame market somewhat by having cool miniatures and easy-ish game play.

And thus completes my efforts to wander completely off-topic from the purpose of this thread!

[csadn]

On the bright side, those that succeed are becoming real hubs of the gaming community, by offering playing space, snacks/food, and organized game play.

Indeed -- almost like the social clubs of the 19th and earlier centuries.

As to stores' gaming sections: Yeah, I've seen games available online -- but on shelves, not really. And it varies greatly depending on the store -- for ex., if I want _X-Wing_ stuff, I have to go to B&N; no one else carries it. Shelf space is by nature limited, so it goes to the "guaranteed" sellers.

What scares me is how old some of the stuff they're bringing out actually is -- someone actually brought back the old _JAWS_-themed game (one of these where one has to remove objects from a trap and not be the one who sets it off) with different packaging. The molds on that have to be near 40 years old.... ("And that's all I have to say about that." :P )

Chariots *could* be races on a "road course"; they weren't because a racetrack that big would have been impossible to keep the spectators contained. (The board game _Ave Caesar_ uses a road-course with split lanes and such; it would take some doing to convert. Also: _Renegade Legion: Circus Imperium_ has rules for Figure-8 chariot races....)