From what I've read here and my understanding of the rules one of the major 'limits' of SoG is going to be 'campaign' battles involving large number of ships.
Is Ares (or anyone) working on 'fleet' rules or some strategic level of play that can lead into the more tactical ship to ship battles you expect to play out of the starter set?
There's really two different issues here, large battles and campaigns.
The rules aren't suited to playing large battles. If you really want to play Trafalgar then realistically you should be looking at another set. Of course someone will try (and I'm already working on doing the Nile at the Naval Wargames Show in June, but that'll be a special event; if I was looking at refighting that or larger battles SGN would not be my rules set of choice). A was discussed here a while back it is possible to split large battles up into discrete "chunks", much as land wargamers do for large battles such as Waterloo and Gettysburg. It really is a matter of common sense, thinking how big a battle you want to fight on your tabletop and chunking your battle of choice - or create 2-3 hypothetical actions, play them separately and link the results for a non-historical action.
Campaigns are a different matter, and are (IMHO) much more fun. There are a number of decent board games that can be used as campaign systems for tactical tabletop battle generation. There are also specific campaign systems out there (such as Greg Novak's "To Glory We Steer), and I wrote one for FLoB about 15 years ago that works fine for SGN (maybe a little tweaking needed for things like the repair and recruiting rules, but I want to see how the Wave 2 and later ships pan out before I do the mods). So if that was the thrust of the question then yes.
Re-creating historical battles (1), ones which really happened, calls for special one-only set of rules, made just for that ocassion. But, others games, although never historically happened, cover "easily might of happen" category (2) - two Brittish vs. two French figates. Others belong to what-if scenarios (3) - let's say massive Brittish vs Russia battle at Crimea in 1810 . And you have "historical fantasy" scenarios (4) as Azteks vs. Spain.
I have played so far 1, 2, and 3 (land battles only) and must say, 2 and 3 are easiest to make. I believe same goes for naval battles.
Hi,
Each ship does has it's own manoeuvre deck but as far as I can tell so far, they are identical for each type of ship class for each side. So, at the moment there seem to be A, B, C & D decks and all the SOL and Frigates I have so far all have one of these decks. I'm not sure if there will be more. The problem with trying to define the individual sailing characteristics of an individual ship would require unique cards for each ship type, probably out of the scope of the game. The manoeuvre cards could have been, (or could be in the future?) marked with different levels of manoeuvre depending the ability of crew (requiring a separate skill rating for each ship) which would go along way to sorting out such subtle differences. There is an optional rule for poorly trained crew which helps sort out differences in ability to carry out actions quickly and rate of firing which works pretty well. I haven't used the Captain cards yet. In terms of damage, it can be pretty brutal if you get lucky - particularly the double shot ammunition option which requires you to fire at point blank. The last game I played HMS Defence utterly destroyed the Courage in two rounds of such broadside - but it took me the best part of two hours to manoeuvre into a position where I could deliver them! There is nothing to reflect the effects of tide and current on ship's sailing but then how far can you go on what is meant to be a game? I always wanted to try age of sail wargaming but was also fearful of building those dam small ships and painting them, and the potential for super complex rules. This game is great fun as is, but maybe with the collective feed back here some future tweaks may make it even better.
Ok, first off there will be additional decks. Expect most, if not all the Wave 2 and the "specials" to have their own. And almost certainly the merchies too. Individual qualities can be represented by removing some of the higher/lower numbered cards and restricting the degree of veer to represent unhandy ships, and by selecting what I expect will be slower or faster decks within each broad ship group.Originally Posted by Blastwall
Tides and currents only really come into effect in coastal scenarios (obviously they d have an effect in the deeper ocean areas but in that environment they affect the sea mass as a whole and so you'd simply be shifting the whole table, so there's no point). In coastal scenarios they can be represented by invoking offset movement each turn. For example, playing in an estuarine river mouth scenario you could just move all ships downstream an inch or whatever you thought was reasonable. Same with currents in various parts of the table.
Campaigns was the major focus of my question and you pretty much answered it in your second paragraph.
I do recall the discussion of breaking down large battles into smaller limited ship actions and then linking them somehow into a "non-historical" action. I think something like this might be fun and workable for large gaming conventions held over several days? At the same time I still want to see how your Battle of the Nile unfolds or anyone else's attempts at battles involving a large number of SGN ships. Thanks for the reply!
Rules notwithstanding, I think the biggest reason for SGN's popularity is the ready made and painted out of the box ships, and over time we will see them used with all miniature Napoleonic naval rules. Not to mention the new naval wargammers who don't like building and painting ships it is drawing.
I hope you are right. If the scale had been a normal scale 1-1200, 1-2400 etc. and the plug was in the base, with the hole in the ship. It would have been a shoe-in for Ares. They have made life difficult for us and themselves. I think they would have done better (sales) for their game and models if they had thought about both of the above. I do not think I am alone in thinking this. I'm not hitting out at Ares or SOG system. I just think they should have got better advice, or listen to advice given to them. They have lost 2 markets. The old sea dogs buying the game itself, or players adding made up ships to fleets they have already. I hope I'm wrong, but look off this site and see.
Be safe
Rory
You are definitely correct that they should have had the hole in the ship and not the base.
I honestly don't know if you're right or not. But I think there's a strong devil's advocate argument to the contrary. The existing community of people with prior sailing miniatures collections is not all that huge--it's kind of a niche. And furthermore, everyone who is in it has already made a big commitment and crossed all kinds of hurdles the average SoG player probably never will. This shows they are motivated customers, but it might also suggest that they are not the right target for a very nice, but still mass-produced product.I hope you are right. If the scale had been a normal scale 1-1200, 1-2400 etc. and the plug was in the base, with the hole in the ship. It would have been a shoe-in for Ares. They have made life difficult for us and themselves. I think they would have done better (sales) for their game and models if they had thought about both of the above. I do not think I am alone in thinking this. I'm not hitting out at Ares or SOG system. I just think they should have got better advice, or listen to advice given to them. They have lost 2 markets. The old sea dogs buying the game itself, or players adding made up ships to fleets they have already. I hope I'm wrong, but look off this site and see.
Be safe
Rory
Existing miniatures players have already made the mental commitment to doing the work of painting and constructing. They probably enjoy it. They are probably attached to the look of their models and unimpressed by anything that could plausibly be mass produced. They can get way more variety of ships from existing vendors and customize them any way they want. In principle sure they might have chosen to augment their fleets with some SoG, but in practice there might have been all kinds of mental barriers that would have inhibited it from happening.
If that's true, than the SoG folks were right not to spend too much time worrying about the hardcore modelers, and instead focusing on a more casual, and potentially larger, market.
Also, it's worth adding that I think it's really only the people that *already had a big investment in existing models* that are affected by these issues. People who generally like miniatures gaming, but never wanted to build a sailing fleet, could still in principle buy SoG ships, take out the base-cards, and they'd be good to go with whatever rules they like.
Dunno, either view seems plausible, I guess to some degree time will tell, and to some degree it will always be a matter of debating "what might have been"...
Last edited by fredmiracle; 02-10-2014 at 11:16.
I don't know about that. When Aries first announced they said the ships would be 1:1200. I was very excited as I know many other AOS gamers were as well. I intended to add them to my fleets without reservation and looked forward to a new rule set to try. I don't believe I was alone in these sentiments.
I've talked to people who have never gamed with naval miniatures and are waiting for the starter sets to get back on the market (for under the $90.00 range) And all I can tell you is, I have built, painted and rigged well over 100 ships over the (many) years and am still excited about SGN's finished ships. Would I make some changes with their product, of course, but am still grateful for their product. MHO.
We had a eight man, eight ship game Saturday with experienced gamers and all seemed to enjoy the game.
I know in the software world that was always one of the "million dollar questions"--do we try to extend the product to capture a bit broader market or not? If you were unwilling to do that at all, you would normally fail. Some flexibility is critical. But if you did it too much, and lost your core focus, then you were also likely to fail, because your product would begin to be less useful to its core audience--and more intangibly, your development team would lose its sense of what the product was really about. Tough choices to navigate.
Perhaps it's a similar issue with game design, or perhaps not. I do respect the fact that Ares seems to have a strong sense of what their product is and what it isn't. I think that has served them well in terms of the quality of the product produced. I'll be interested to see where they go both with product expansion, and with possible evolution of the rules. I just hope they have the bandwidth to give the game ongoing care and feeding.
There is an old and very true saying,
" I don't know the formula for success, but the formula for failure is,
trying to please everyone."
Kind of like the way our country is going.
Your country is total rookie on that subject, compared to mine...
I bellieve the mass production of prepainted ships is good decision. Scale could be 1:1200, I agree, but this one isn't bad at all. And, having in mind rules are available on Ares' site, and that the other stuff will be probably available (as we are experiencing on Aerodrome), gamers which already have their fleets could use them with SoG rules pretty soon.
Building and painting miniatures is important part of the hobby (and I enjoy it). But, is not important for somebody who just wants the play the game. There is lot of people I know which don't have particular armies fo all wargames they play (and few of them without armies at all), but there always are plenty of fully painted armies to be played with - as the others, more comitted to hobby usually have 2,3 or even more ones.
In fewer words, Ares strategy is good one.
Hit the nail on the head, in two sentences.
It is interesting reading these discussions. I am of the modelling and painting persuasion but, prior to the introduction of SGN, had never considered Naval gaming. The starter set ,with pre painted miniatures ,grabbed my attention for an easy play game with my 11 year old son. Now I've taken the plunge and read the threads here, I find that I'm increasingly interested in modding the ships and expanding my collection. Ares must have done something right :-)
Hi! All of the above,
I think you are all right. I just do not understand the change of scale from 1-1200 to this odd 1-1000 scale. I enjoy doing the ships, islands, shore-lines, harbours and batteries etc. As one would have seen before the big hack. But it takes time to build up the ships for a large game. The idea of adding X number of lets say 3rd rate ships to my fleets, all done and ready to go was a rub my hands and jump for joy moment. Add to this a new set of rules, I thought my ship had come in. O.K. for me they are not the best in the world, but to play a new rule system or/and add them to my ships for the big game with big fleets. The time saved and fun it would have added to my world.
Then came the scale change. Why? Ares said they could not make the ships smaller. How come other companies can? I can think of 3 that do Napoleonic ships, and if you add different periods more companies come to mind. Who else makes or plays 1-1000 scale ships?
I can see lots of gamer's (alas) pirating the parts of the game to miss out buying the ships. As the rules would work with 1-1200 scale with very little tweaking.
I do wish Ares and SOG all the best. For itself and for my ship-mates here. But I stand by my last post on this thread.
Be safe
Rory
again, I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but see it from Ares' point of view
Are there companies doing 1:1200 scale turnkey pre-painted/decorated fully-assembled durable plastic ships? I'm not aware of any, but I don't know the market well.
Comparing Ares' ships to metal, you-assemble-them-and-paint-them-yourself products is a bit apples-to-oranges.
Plus I think Ares didn't say they COULDN'T do it, but that the look wouldn't be up to the standard they had set. Even leaving the decorating aside, just the size difference alone could make a difference in improving the visual "pop" from seeing the ships in the package.
All that to say I find it a (debatable of course) business decision, and not an incomprehensible blunder, that Ares might have sacrificed the modellers with existing 1:1200 fleets to create a product more appealing to the mass market.
And of course it's easy for me to be sanguine about that business decision, because I didn't have any ships and Ares made this type of gaming available to me for the first time.
The bottom line is that it looks like 1/1000 is here to stay. If it gets big enough, I'm sure some company will make buildings etc. in the new scale.
So to me, complaining about this new scale is old news. They won't change so, accept it or move along.
I don't mean you Rory, just that train of thought.
Last edited by Gunner; 02-11-2014 at 12:49.
Looking at this purely from a business standpoint, I think Ares' took a big gamble going with 1:1000 scale, but it has paid off handsomely, and may pay off even more handsomely going forward. I don't mean to second guess their choice, but I like these little mental exercises. Feel free to ignore my musings...
If Ares had stuck with 1:1200 (putting aside any manufacturing issues. It wouldn't surprise me if plastic ships at that scale would have several QC issues, although I'm no expert on that topic), the pressure would have been high for them to alter their production schedule dramatically. Owners of existing 1:1200 scale ships would demand the necessary gameplay elements (ships cards, ship logs, and perhaps ship bases) to use their own models. Ares may or may not have responded to that pressure, but I think selling just the cards/logs would be disastrous for Ares in the long run. Here's why:
1. As we already can see from other games like WoG, X-Wing, Star Trek Attack Wing, etc., there is a practical and financial limit to how many ships a company can produce at once. So they are sold in "waves". The limits of producing ship models don't apply to producing cardboard ship logs and ship cards, though. The necessary capital and manpower to produce them is WAY lower.
So what if they produce ship cards/logs/bases for existing historical ships for gamers who already have lots of ship models in their collection - even before Ares is able to produce the corresponding models to go with them? Their profit margin would go down (cardboard pieces don't sell for as much as the ship models), and there would be a risk of alienating new players who would want to play with these new "ships" but don't have the models with which to play them (and lets face it - completionism is rampant among gamers, so this isn't all that speculative). This invites competitors to start producing ship models to compete with Ares' own ships - and what's to stop them, if Ares' is essentially inviting players to use third-party ships to play SoG by producing the cards/logs/bases?
2. Alternatively, what if they only release ship cards/logs/bases for separate purchase as the same time as they release their own models? This potentially alienates players like Rory (sorry Rory - you are just the stand-in example!), who wonder why Ares is "preventing" them from using their own Langton's models. We "know" that it's easy-peasy for them to publish the ship cards/logs/bases for dozens of ships right away because the cost to produce them is so low (relatively speaking). And as discussed above, selling the cards/logs/bases is necessarily cutting their own profits. Third parties can freely sell their own 1:1200 scale ships (whether it's top of the line Langton's or lower end plastic knockoffs) and market them to SoG players knowing that Ares is providing the necessary materials to use these ships in their game. Why should Ares allow competition an even playing field?
3. Ares can decide NOT to produce ship cards/logs for separate purchase than their models, so that they don't give third party competitors an even playing field. The difference in scale is not so large that players can't still use the 1:1200 ships mixed in with 1:1000 scale ships, as it is the ship's base that is important from a rule perspective. Yes, the difference in scale is likely noticeable to a casual observer, but not so large that it takes away from the gameplay. So if hobbyists want to use their own ships, they can jury-rig (sorry, couldn't help myself!) their own cards/logs to use their own ships.
But then, if players are jury-rigging their game to include their own ships, why should Ares' bother at keeping the models at 1:1200 anyway? Especially if there are manufacturing issues that makes it more practical for Ares to use the larger scale? So then we are back to where we started.
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are a lot of potential downsides to Ares producing ships in the 1:1200 scale, with few corresponding upsides to them. Yes, it's nice for those hobbyists who already own lots of 1:1200 scale ships and don't want to be inconvenienced with a slight size disparity when they use them alongside the "official" SoG ships. But as Gunner pointed out - the easiest road to failure is to try to please everyone.
The one argument I see in favor of Ares publishing at the 1:1200 scale is that they could plan on the ruleset and starter game to be their profit center. The idea being that allowing (encouraging?) third party competitors to make ships usable with the base game will tend to encourage sales of the starter set - something analogous to Microsoft making Windows hardware agnostic - as long as everyone used Windows, they didn't care who actually sold the hardware. But the response to this argument is pretty obvious - the potential market for SoG is extremely limited. Even with the unexpected success of SoG, sales will never reach into the millions of units. It's just too much of a "niche" game. So Ares has to maximize their ability to sell every component to be used with SoG because the profit margin is so small (relatively speaking). Thus, 1:1000 scale is pretty much the right call, IMHO.
Okay, enough of my ramblings. Time to play with little sailing ships!
Plus, The next generations of wargamers could care less how many 1/1200 scale ships we have. They'll just know it's easier, having everything they need to play in the box.
Hi Fred,again, I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but see it from Ares' point of view
Are there companies doing 1:1200 scale turnkey pre-painted/decorated fully-assembled durable plastic ships? I'm not aware of any, but I don't know the market well.
Comparing Ares' ships to metal, you-assemble-them-and-paint-them-yourself products is a bit apples-to-oranges.
Plus I think Ares didn't say they COULDN'T do it, but that the look wouldn't be up to the standard they had set. Even leaving the decorating aside, just the size difference alone could make a difference in improving the visual "pop" from seeing the ships in the package.
All that to say I find it a (debatable of course) business decision, and not an incomprehensible blunder, that Ares might have sacrificed the modellers with existing 1:1200 fleets to create a product more appealing to the mass market.
And of course it's easy for me to be sanguine about that business decision, because I didn't have any ships and Ares made this type of gaming available to me for the first time.
First welcome to this mad world.
I have said before for, to glue sails to masts and mast to hull is in all players "can do". If not we all know a friend who could do it for us. If the parts are painted or not.
I do understand you, and think a lot gamer's think painting ships and rigging them as a glass ceiling. Ares opened a big door, which could have been to the promise land. Would you start wargaming with 8mm figures? Not 2mm, 6mm, 15mm or 2omm etc standard scales? I think not? The "pop" as you call it is on the table not in the box. I would see it as oranges-to-mandarins.As long as you only play SOG your in. If in time you wish to move into this naval game big time,you will hit walls. Ares are looking to planes players as a market. Sacrifice us Napoleonic Naval plays! At the end of the day we would be the ones spending money on big fleets.
As said time and time again. Enjoy the ships and the game. As long as Ares make more and more ships and a system to play bigger games (fleet actions) you are in and I hope you would let people like me play with your ships
Be safe
Rory
You have posted before that the scale issue has stopped you from purchasing SOG. That is a shame because your ships are beautiful. So if I may read between the lines, you wouldn't play SOG with your fleets of 1/1200 Langtons tweaked with a special base, etc., because you feel it is akin to stealing (IP) from Ares? Don't get me wrong that is admirable, but what if you bought the starter set and sold the ships on e-bay? Maybe after trying the game at a club or show and you enjoyed the game itself? Would that change the ethical equation?
Just curious because I am sure that, just as happened with WOG, you'll find mods to the game to use different scales and alternate ships, etc. (Just look at the pirate ship mods already).
Eric
The only thing I mind about Ares doing their ships in 1/1000 is that I can't easily use my 1/1200 ships temporarily to fill in the gaps until Ares produces enough ships for a decent selection. With a production rate that I presume will be one wave a year, it is going to take a few years. I just wish Ares would tell us what their choices are or what they are leaning toward for waves 3 and 4.
Its going to take decades for Ares to fill out a decent selection of the kind of things I'm wanting :) I would dearly have loved Ares to stick with 1/1200 as it would have made combining my two favourite rule sets a doddle. As it is thats now just a dream. But at least 1/1000 is close enough to 1/1200 to make it easy to use the smaller scale terrain with Ares models with no real problems. And there are enough existing 1/1200 markers for things like fallen masts, boats, etc. that also work with 1/1000 that there really isn't any significant pressing need for the development of such items. It will be interesting to see if any of the current manufacturers of 1/1200 stuff decide to produce anything in 1/1000 as well.
Based on how quickly the first printing sold out, I imagine that at least a few manufacturers are considering adding a line of 1/1000 scale terrain. Give it a year, tops.
I also have no idea what Ares' planned schedule for Wave 3 and 4 is (I'm sure it's dependent on how Wave 2 goes), but two waves a year seems reasonable if demand remains this high. So that would be 24-32 ships per year (estimating from Wave 1, which included 16 ships, and Wave 2, which will include 12 ships). If you count ship cards being double sided, then that's 48-64 ships per year. It adds up quickly.
Michael
I am stand-up guy.unless drunk.
Ed
You have painted ships, I know dropped painted ships, if we follow you on this. Why not just use computer games?
Eric,
This is a two way street. Ares does not help me, so why should I help them? By putting money in their pockets? I do think that Ares has done this (1-1000 scale) to make you buy only their ships. That I can see if Michael is right and Ares bring out more ships and logs, fast! They will have the niche game. And lots of happy players. As I see it they have been late in bring out the first wave, and not in large numbers. You all are gagging for more ships. So Ares wins again.
No Eric, I will not play their games or steal from them.
Be safe
Rory
I'm with you on your first sentence
Don't like computer games. Wasted too many hours, days, months on them years ago.
I like face to face wargaming.
I personally like smaller craft, such as sloops, cutters and schooners. These seem a bit small, and roughly modeled in 1/1200 from the photos I've seen, and I expect they will show up a bit better in 1/1000 instead so I like the change of scale.
The downside of course is that they aren't available yet, and the available 1/1200 versions I could get now won't match. But I never really bought into the 1/1200 miniatures before either, despite an abiding interest in small sailing craft, so that is a pretty weak objection.
What I'd really like to see is this kind of thing in 1/600
Some of the small ship actions could be a lot of fun but probaly best served by a different rule set, I included one such scenario (http://www.sailsofglory.org/showthre...ll=1#post28982) in the scenario ideas thread just because it had so many different elements that would make it a lot of fun.
That I would love to do, Ed. Face to face across a table. Maybe one day Ed, and afterwards we could try my first sentenceI'm with you on your first sentence
Don't like computer games. Wasted too many hours, days, months on them years ago.
I like face to face wargaming.
Ted, Have you seen Jeffrey Knudsen A.K.A. War Artisan. You can find him on T.M.P. He could be your man for the smaller ships. Hope this helps you.
Be safe
Rory
That seems likely if they publish an "ancient ships" edition for roman galleys etc." Makes sense to me at least!What I'd really like to see is this kind of thing in 1/600
If there is going to be any drinking and war gaming, I insist that I be given the honor of losing my fleet and my consciousness first!
Ted,
Maybe the game "Away Boards" rules would be up your street too.
Be safe
Rory
I might go to Munich again for OktoberfestThat I would love to do, Ed. Face to face across a table. Maybe one day Ed, and afterwards we could try my first sentence
What part of California do you hail from?
I certainly get your point of view--I would be frustrated too in your shoes, and would have serious doubts about buying into the Ares world.
I think I can pretty safely say for myself I'm not going to regret the missed opportunity to assemble and paint. For the WW2 world I've done a little painting of 3D printed stuff, and I'm proud of the results, but I didn't LOVE doing it, lack the time to do very much, and the stuff just doesn't stand up to the kids as well. To each his own...
I believe it's been covered already in this thread, but there was a good reason Ares gave for the change from the original planned 1/1200 scale to the increased 1/1000 scale of the ships. It was purely an ease of production change, as it allowed the painters an easier time in turn around to paint the larger scale models. I think that is a pretty plausible explanation though none of us here can truly read the minds of those running the show at Ares. The other side of the coin, which I believe is an obvious one, is like their other games they intended to sell additional ships and not just the basic game Starter Set. We can't fault them for that decision.
Many years ago when I first started playing AoS games I began with the 1/1200 scale ships that were available. Over the years though it became more difficult for me to paint and rig the ships in the manner I preferred. So I got away from the AoS period and stuck with WW II ships in the same scale. Still whenever I got a chance to play an AoS game at a show I always admired the work that the owners of the collections we played with put into their ships! Even though my eyesight and my fingers were no longer able to match my desire I never lost my taste for the period. Then I discovered the 1/700 scale ships produced by Skytrex! At last I had found a scale I could work with, and found it easier to apply my talents to, so I bought a boat load of them! Though the line was limited, and now sadly out of production it did offer me the opportunity to stay in the period none the less!
I picked up my copy of SoG a couple of weeks ago. The first thing I did was sit down and read the rule book from cover to cover a couple of times. I then came across David's review of the game on his blog. I found he made his points both pro and con very clear and straight forward. It certainly didn't deter my interest in the game, nor make me believe I had wasted my money on the purchase. Were I in a position to do so, I'd give his review an A+ as to content, presentation, and knowledge. I believe the one thing we can all agree upon is SoG is a game first and foremost. It's probably a step below Avalon Hill's "WS&IM", but a couple of steps above the old American Heritage game of "Broadsides"! One thing is for sure from my experience thus far on this site, and having played the game a couple of times, this game IS making waves all around. I mean there are folks here repainting and rigging their ships, making up cards for ships not yet available, and providing a treasure chest full of information on the period! If that allows Ares to produce more and more ships, or motivates new, as yet unknown numbers of players to move into that preferred 1/1200 scale of ships and rules I don't see a down side for all those efforts! It's the main reason we all signed aboard isn't it?
Thank you for your kind words, sir!
Somehow...I don't think Ares will cancel their whole product line and switch to 1/1200th scale.
Oh, you mean like We're Out To Conquer did with Axis & Allies ground-game? :p
Ed,
Around 2 to 2,1/2 hours away by road. How long would your stop-over be?
Fred,
I do understand you and, only wish you fun and good times with your new ships. I too have played SOG and enjoyed it.
Paul,
I see your point. we are only the moths that must follow the light shined on us by the companies that make the models.
David,
You started all this with your blog I was on your side, still am
Andy,
Only if we do not buy them and say why. But plays are so, they will jump up and down and count the money
Be safe
Rory
I'm in Oakland, CA. I can see the cargo cranes at the port from my office window. It's not quite the port of sailing ships I like to imagine it was 150 years ago (I'm not even sure Oakland was a port 150 years ago), but it's fun to watch the ships entering the bay from all over the world.
For those who have played with the captain/crew decks, have you any thoughts? Do the cards provide sufficient ship differentiation? I haven't employed these yet, but am curious as to others' experience and thoughts.
You could go big and do it in 15mm with these: http://www.thoroughbredmodels.com/SeaEagles.htm
As Rory mentioned the War Artisan paper ships are also good for small ships. For the War of 1812 ships I believe the scale is 1/300. The "Away Boarders" rules look good but you need a mat with a special grid.
Eric
Last edited by DeRuyter; 02-13-2014 at 08:42. Reason: Added content.
I see your point - thanks.
Eric
+1 Great review.
Rory,
Should our paths ever cross you will certainly be welcomed to play with my ships anytime! Afterwards we'll hoist a few brews, and exchange the glories in our sea stories!
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