WHAT OTHER ERA
What other eras do you think ARES will come up with? In another post I thought about the ACW. I think they could come up with Pirates ships as an expansion. I can see a Spanish Galleon as a new ship. I think there is also room for different expansions to the main game. Just my thoughts.
There's nothing on the horizon yet and I'd hope they spend a decent amount of time getting SGN up and running.
Once thats done I'd make a guess at some sort of pirate release as pirates sell well. ACW a possibility.
Actually the system works really well for ancient galley warfare. Personally I think it would make an awesome official release, although I suspect commercially it may not be viable. You never know though.....
I would think that Ares would expand SoG into closely related eras in which movement and combat are highly, in not exactly, similar. I would, thusly, anticipate more Napoleonic, War of 1812, 17th and 18th century, and pirates. That would keep them busy for years to come.
I would like to see ancients and ACW. I imagine a card driven system like SoG would work quite well for ancients. Once you get later than ACW, I wonder how well the system would work. With any 20th century conflict, I imagine range would have to be addressed. The tactics and play experience of long-range vs. up-close would be different, I would think. Maybe it would be simply a matter of exchanging a ruler with a tape measure. Regardless, if Ares ever expanded to different eras beyond AoS, I would jump onboard. Having played WoG and now a little of SoG, I really like what they are producing, and the system is very accessible to new players.
I wouldn't think Ares is going to do much outside SGN for a while seeing as how they have just scratched the surface of the Napoleonic era and production runs at about one series a year.
I knew I would get great thoughts from you guys and I agree with Eric about anything after ACW. Can you see Chinese Junks and Turtle ships doing battle?
David ACW and Ancients would not be that different except for the cannons. Ancients had their own power with the oars so could be similar rules.
ancients works because the card movement gets you away from the close quarter paralysis that afflicts so many games of that era. And the damage chit system would work well for missile fire from different types of weapon. Models would be a doddle to do - 1/600 or maybe even bigger would look rather nice, IMHO.
I would LOVE to see turtle ships and other Asian types commonly available somewhere. I've written a couple of sets of rules for this genre but to date no useable models!
Well now you can get with ARES to make the models and you have the rules. I guess I am not that crazy to think of those types of ships.
AOS has advantages that no other time period has. It's a combination of wind, gunnery and ships. Before AOS wind is only somewhat important and gunnery is minimum. After AOS wind has almost no importance and the scale of gunnery range affects the gaming immensely.
On the flip side, WWII, for example, adds air and submarine, so as wind diminishes, the game expands to three levels - below, on, and above surface. I agree with you, though, Tom, in that AoS seems to strike a good balance between different mechanic components, e.g. maneuvering directly affects firing, and maneuvering requires one to consider the effects of wind - very integrated. Besides, there is a certain romance to AoS that I do not find in other eras.Originally Posted by tmon
I would think they would try to round out the rest of the Napoleonic age ships!!! (Brigs, Schooners, Sloop of wars, etc) We only have Frigates and SoL so far which are probably the most eye catching and appealing to get the game started!!!
I would also expect them to expand to more countries like Spain, United States, and even some pirates!!!
I agree that Ares will be expanding AoS for several years. Elizabethan would be great next. Ancients would be a good next era.
Karl
Wizkid's Pirates have junks and some turtle ships. I know that's not the real thing, but can do in a must.
And about ancient naval warfare, I second that completely.
So much depends on how well the game gains traction once it hits the stores. What I'd personally like to see has already been mentioned, but here are my ranked preferences:
1. More Napoleonic AoS; Spanish, US and other European countries should be high priority.
2. Pirates; everything and anywhere.
3. American Civil War. This might go really well as we're in the midst of many sesquicentennial battle anniversaries.
4. Elizabethan; Spanish Armada, Age of Exploration.
Possible 'left field' ideas that Ares might float if the game really takes off (these are way down the list on what I'd expect to see within five years, if ever):
1. Steampunk; 20,000 Leagues, Mysterious Island, Captain Nemo, etc.
2. SF/Fantasy; Space 1889, John Carter of Mars, etc.
It's been mentioned previously that they can't overload the consumers regardless of how well the game does because most folks are limited in how much money they can devote to hobbies. New waves more than once a year is probably risking too much. So they may not get beyond the Napoleonic AoS focus for several years.
Unless, of course, they might try another Kickstarter. . . .?
Are there enough data sources available on the speed and manoeuverability of ancient ships to contruct an accurate game? There are companies already producing ancient model ships.
1. Yes
2. There are, but then again there have been companies producing age of sail wargaming minis for 30+ years and that didn't dissuade Ares from giving it a go :)
Are you thinking of battles such as the 19th century Opium Wars, or earlier times periods such as 10th through 16th centuries?
I'm thinking these :)
Opium Wars you can do with SGN with a few tweaks :)
That would be great. It would open up some interesting scenarios, and I think it could have great attraction at cons.
Here is a set of links to wiki articles on Opium War naval battles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...the_Opium_Wars
Fantastic picture.
I think SGN will keep Ares occupied for a long time to come. Still need Merchantmen, Sloops, 40/44's, 64's, 80's, 98/100's, 110's, for Brits, French, Spanish, the Trinidad, maybe some taller Ottoman SOL's to accommodate their tall headgear, not to mention Russians etc. just to name some. And that would be fine with me.
The AOS as we know it really began with the Anglo-Dutch wars around 1645. That was when modern tactics were developed. In Elizabethan times, the gunnery technology was imperfect, to say the least.
It really ended just before the ACW, when sail gave way to steam for tactical though not strategic movement. "Down Sail Up Funnel Prepare for Combat". While you could simulate the early tactical steam engines with similar mechanics to those of galleys, as soon as HMS Warrior and the RFN Gloire came out, things changed.
Despite Harry Harrison's "Stars and Stripes Forever", HMS Warrior could have made mincemeat of both the Virginia and Monitor. Their only chance would be to ram.
http://www.hmswarrior.org/history/armamentWooden warships had attained their optimum length, their multiple gun decks making them unstable. Warrior's ingenious deign incorporated just one long, very stable gun deck - 100 feet longer than any previous warship. Her firepower could blow any other vessel out of the water. While wooden ships carried 32-pounder guns, Warrior had 68-pounders and 110-pounders. She was the ultimate deterrent.
Of the two types of heavy gun carried by Warrior the 68 pounder was most numerous, with twenty six on board. This gun was designed in 1846 by Colonel Dundas, weighing 6 tons on its elm carriage. 18 men were required to man the position and could achieve a rate of fire of one round every 55 seconds. Although equipped with fitted sights, the trajectory was erratic. Due to the smooth bore nature of the gun effective range was limited to 2,000 yards. Complementing the 68 lb muzzle loading guns were ten 110 pound guns.
The Admiralty opted for these relatively untried breech loading guns, designed in 1859 by Tyneside engineer, William Armstrong and weighing 4.1 tons. Again a gun crew of 18 men were required to discharge one round every 50 seconds.
One innovation was the barrel's rifling. This made the shot fly true and spin so that the tapered point hit the target first. This heralded the introduction of the percussion fuse, which detonated the shell on impact.
Another new feature was the loading method. The guns did not have to be drawn back into the ship; both projectile and charge were loaded through the breech screw and the chamber sealed with a block.
http://www.hamptonroadsrelics.com/USS MONITOR: Armament: two 11" Dahlgren smoothbore cannons. Armor: turret was made of eight 1" iron plates.
CSS VIRGINIA: Armament: two 7" Brooke rifles, two 6.4" Brooke rifles, six 9" Dahlgren smoothbore cannons and two 12 pounder howitzers. Armor: deck 1" iron, casemate had 4" iron backed with 24" wood.
The 110lb 7" Armstrong had to use reduced charges (110/16lb) - it couldn't penetrate the Warrior's own armour. No better than the 7" rifles on the Virginia, only slightly better than the 11" smoothbore (166/20lb) on the Monitor. Better than the 9" Dahlgrens though (90/13lb). The 68lb could use a higher charge (24lb, 16lb usual), enough to go through 5" iron plus 24" wood, or 10" Iron. Not as accurate at long range though, and a smaller effect when it hit. Against the 4" of mild steel railroad rails of the Virginia, or the multiple plates on the Monitor... would go straight through.Warrior's armour consisted of 4.5 inches (114 mm) of wrought iron backed by 18 inches (457 mm) of teak. The iron armour was made up of 3-by-12-foot (0.91 by 3.7 m) plates that interlocked via the tongue and groove method. It was bolted through the teak to the iron hull. The teak consisted of two 9-inch-thick (229 mm) layers laid at right angles to each other; they strengthened the armour by damping the shock waves caused by the impact of shells that would otherwise break the bolts connecting the armour to the hull. Based on tests at Shoeburyness in October 1861 when the Warrior was launched, it "was practically invulnerable to the ordnance at the time in use"
At a time when only coast-defence ships had anything bigger than a 32lb, the Warriors could pick their range, and shoot the enemy to pieces while remaining invulnerable
Had either the Monitor or Virginia been able to close, and hit the steering gear... tricky though when your speed is 1/3 of the enemy.
As an aside - the 6.4" Brooke Rifles used a 12lb charge - and sometimes burst with that. The 7" were re-bored 9" Dahlgrens with greater accuracy at long range, but less effect.
Last edited by Pirate Queen; 12-01-2013 at 16:29.
Then we can turn Sampans into junk(s)
http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...ll=1#post21607
Karl
I knew when I asked this question I would get outstanding responses. Hope ARES monitors this site to see what people have to offer.
Is that the Warrior that can be seen in Portsmouth?
Visited it many years ago, on the same day I visited the Victory and the Mary-Rose...
Covering all the AOS bases in one port
I can't imagine what the author of the excellent "Stainless Steel Rat" novels was smoking when he wrote that piece of cack. I can only surmise he did it for a bet.
The very same. One time where we have a "Primary Source" sans pareil. OK, there's the Victory too, another example where we can check plans and documentation vs the original, and by reconstructing testbeds using the same techniques and materials, verify things like effects of weapons, penetration etc.
The point is, that technology - the shell-firing gun necessitating iron-clad protection - as well as steam for tactical maneuvering - made AOS Napoleonic-Era ships obsolescent due to vulnerability around 1840. A ship with purely wooden protection was extremely vulnerable to shellfire, true "eggshells armed with hammers". Any actions in 1840 would have been bloody affairs indeed.
The Gloire, with ironclad protection as well as shell-firing guns, was a monster - but the Warrior, with armour proof against shells, shot, or anything else, much higher speed, and weapons easily capable of defeating any opponent, made the Gloire as obsolete as it had made AOS ships.
Last edited by Pirate Queen; 12-01-2013 at 16:47.
Harrison gave up writing good SF a number of years ago.
And died in August last year.
There is SO much fodder to work with in the Age of Sail. Heck those photos of that badass looking xebec miniature is a good example. Don't think of expansions as just different types of ships either. It could also be rules. I love how the rules are set-up with four different levels of difficulty. They could add elements like carronades into level #5. Smoke. Other stuff. This could easily be part of an expansion pack with other stuff that could be sold.
I wonder how Ares evaluates business investment opportunities like this?
I'm pretty sure that the WWI Wings stuff outsells the WWII stuff by a wide margin.
Perhaps that will make them stay "much closer to home" era-wise.
If they do ACW, I want to be able to re-enact some of the actions of "Ellet's Squadron" -- no guns; just Mass and Velocity... and it *worked*.
As to Ironclads: I really wish I could make my TV show about "the American Civil War outside the DC-Richmond Axis", so people might learn there were more -- and better -- ironclads than those godawful [excuse the pun] crapcans _Monitor_ and _Merrimac_....
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