On this day 20 September - a French flotilla engages the HMS Naiad

[7eat51]

On the 20th of September 1811, the HMS Naiad, under the command of Captain Philip Carteret, was engaged by a flotilla of French gunboats off the coast of Boulogne. The French ships were comprised of seven praams, under the command of Rear-Admiral Baste, each mounted with twelve 24-pounders, ten brigs, each mounted with four long 24-pounders, and one sloop, mounted with two long 24-pounders. The praams approached the Naiad, which remained at anchor. During the first 45 minutes of action, the praams fired upon the Naiad, after which the remaining ships reinforced them. The French continued to fire for two more hours, only to disengage and return under the protection of shore batteries. Carteret weighed anchor an attempted to close with the flotilla, but the wind calmed and the Naiad took up its original position. The Naiad did not suffer any casualties.

For more on today’s event, see http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/16524/pages/1861

[Hobbes]

Interesting read. If I do understand correctly (me not being an English native and the somewhat ruff font of the Gazette), Napoleon himself inspected the french flotilla on that day. accordingly, the french admiral tried to impress the Emperor with the assault on Naiad. No wonder Napoleon didn't think much of his navy.

[csadn]

Interesting read. If I do understand correctly (me not being an English native and the somewhat ruff font of the Gazette), Napoleon himself inspected the french flotilla on that day. accordingly, the french admiral tried to impress the Emperor with the assault on Naiad. No wonder Napoleon didn't think much of his navy.

It didn't help that prams weren't exactly renowned for Heavy Firepower -- they were more usually used as transports (what Napoleon would have used to cross the Channel), so their guns, if any, tended toward the "anti-personnel" size (4-8 lb. shot). Frankly, I don't believe for a moment the prams in the account were using 24s, much less carrying more of them than the bigger units.

[Cmmdre]

Reminds me of this scene from Pulp Fiction with Vincent Vega and Jules.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmaYII9m9QY

[7eat51]

Chris, this is one of the issues we have discussed with history. The account is from an eyewitness, and written the day after the engagement. As you will see in tomorrow's event of the day, the story continues. Unless there is a more reliable source of info on the specific boats in question, we have to go with the Captain's account, however problematic it might be. The nature of witness and testimony in history is a fascinating subject.

[David Manley]

Its also worth bearing in mind that the RN captured a number of vessels of this type, both "standard" transports and vessels of this type converted or specifically built as gunboats, so there was plenty of physical evidence as to vessels of this type and the various armament states that they enjoyed. The prams used here were essentially a step in the line of improvised and semi improvised coastal defence vessel that plied the coasts of Northern Europe up until the mid 1940s (German F Lighters / MFPs (Marine Fahr Prahms) often carrying scales of gun armament that would not look out of place on a small destroyer) and MALs (Marine Artillerie Leichters) being but a couple of examples.

[csadn]

Its also worth bearing in mind that the RN captured a number of vessels of this type, both "standard" transports and vessels of this type converted or specifically built as gunboats, so there was plenty of physical evidence as to vessels of this type and the various armament states that they enjoyed. The prams used here were essentially a step in the line of improvised and semi improvised coastal defence vessel that plied the coasts of Northern Europe up until the mid 1940s (German F Lighters / MFPs (Marine Fahr Prahms) often carrying scales of gun armament that would not look out of place on a small destroyer) and MALs (Marine Artillerie Leichters) being but a couple of examples.

That being the case: The French gunnery must have been utterly appalling -- that big a gun, at that close range, against a frigate, and *not so much as a scratch among the target's crew*? Something ain't stirrin' the sauce here.

(Still trying to find a good game simulating "PT boats vs. F-Lighters", damn it....)

[David Manley]

Bearing in mind that many of the crews were extremely inexperienced in naval gunnery that poor showing wouldn't surprise me in the least.

If you are after some coastal forces rules drop me a PM

[Berthier]

The praam's at least, as coastal vessels, had little in the way of a keel and would not have been easy to maneuvre in choppy seas. It may have been quite difficult to hit anything in even minor swells and there was a flood tide. Combined with the inexperienced sailors David has mentioned the poor shooting whilst woeful becomes more understandable. The concern here though is that Naiad was anchored and thus essentially stationary (though on springs) so indeed Chris' point about the shooting has plenty of merit.

[Avi]

From my experience with small boat action you do not Shoot your guns at targets - you "sew" the sea with the target in the middle.
Modern guns fire on automatic easy to do this - they did not have that advantage.

[David Manley]

Alas the RN didn't have ASCG or miniguns with which to do that in the 1800s :)

[csadn]

The concern here though is that Naiad was anchored and thus essentially stationary (though on springs) so indeed Chris' point about the shooting has plenty of merit.

Yeah -- I'm thinking of the old "firing squad" joke from _Monty Python_: "How could you *miss*!?" There's Ineptitude, and then there's this.

I'm thinking maybe the one praam which was captured was not representative of the entire force; being the "boss boat", it got more and bigger guns, while the rest received fewer and/or smaller guns. Who knows?