Rory's Russian Fleet

[Devsdoc]

Rory,

I see from earlier posts you have made that you have the book, Russian Warships in the age of sail; Design construction careers and fates. Are all Russian ships in black and white, to your knowledge, I have seen info that suggests that some had green hulls?

From TMP
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=180515

Were any painted Green with White stripes that you know of, or was this a later occurrence or even a result of fading paint and poor colour reproduction?

rabbit

Rab,
I cannot open your named TMP thread. Can you give me Date and thread name of this please. So I can look at it.
Be safe
Rory

[Rabbit]

Rab,
I cannot open your named TMP thread. Can you give me Date and thread name of this please. So I can look at it.
Be safe
Rory

Rory, the TMP thread is in the “ Napoleonic Naval Painting Guides Message Board!
"Painting Russian ships" Topic topic title
First post by fleabeard 28 Sep 2009 1:22 p.m. PST

Last post by rabbit (yes it is) 15 Feb 2012 12:55 p.m. PST

Type Russian ships into the search function and it should be one of the ones that comes up.

Good luck.

If I had such a tome, I too would follow its word so Black and white they will be unless someone comes up with a different source.
Interesting Quote from Admiral Lazarev …


Is the book Russian?, (it does not look as though it is) I have two copies of the same Russian uniform book, a buddy has a third, yet the colour plates in each book vary dramatically, even though they were all nominally the same print run...

rabbit

[Devsdoc]

Very odd that my copy shows only one black stripe just above the waterline and the rest dark green with white stripes. It might my cover was the end of the cover run and the ink was starting to fade. Yes I read the 5th paragraph of page 28 but, I wonder if all Russian ships could have been repainted in his short 5 year reign, if it was even implemented.
Please see http://my.erinet.com/~bp/pt_napnv.ht...al_Ship_Colors showing green hull & white stripes by Ray Trochim.

Hi Ed,
Thanks for your information. I will and do not put anyone down. To see painted ships is just a great thing to see. What colour they are is for the owner of the ship to pick. I'm very sorry but I can see green rails and green at the water line only. The rest is black and white. I will answer the rest below.

Interesting link, Ed. Thanks for sharing it.

I think this discussion illustrates that our knowledge and understanding of history is always incomplete, and this discrepancies are not uncommon.

From a gaming point-of-view, do you recommend keeping fleets uniform in color, or is some variation acceptable in not causing confusion for players? I am not an experienced AoS mini player, and the traditional hex-and-chit games I have played basically use single national colors.

Oh, Eric,
Its a mine-field out there. Each of us going off in our own way. I know my ships are not all the right colours. That is for ease of playing only. If I was doing bigger scales or one of the famous ships, I would try and make it right. At this scale 1-1200 or smaller I'm looking at fleets. Some of you are aiming for ship duels of maybe max 2 or 3 ships a side. So you are using named ships and want them 100% right. That is great and O.K. by me. I love fleet actions, so paint for fleets. For me at 1-1200 or as you have 1-4800 scale I would colour for fleets.

Rory, the TMP thread is in the “ Napoleonic Naval Painting Guides Message Board!
"Painting Russian ships" Topic topic title
First post by fleabeard 28 Sep 2009 1:22 p.m. PST

Last post by rabbit (yes it is) 15 Feb 2012 12:55 p.m. PST

Type Russian ships into the search function and it should be one of the ones that comes up.

Good luck.

If I had such a tome, I too would follow its word so Black and white they will be unless someone comes up with a different source.
Interesting Quote from Admiral Lazarev …


Is the book Russian?, (it does not look as though it is) I have two copies of the same Russian uniform book, a buddy has a third, yet the colour plates in each book vary dramatically, even though they were all nominally the same print run...

rabbit

Rab & Ed,
O.K. Both of you are using the same source, Ray Trockim. He uses 2 sources. One is "Splicing the Mainbrace" by Rod Langton in the "Miniature Wargames" January 1990. At no point is the colour of Russian hulls shown or talked about. This article is the bases of his " A Guide to Assembly, Painting & Rigging of Napoleonic Naval Models in Scale 1:1200" published in April 1999. In this book he says on page 20 "There are Reports that some Spanish vessels and several Russians were black". Again no green. Sources 2 I have not seen Otto von Pivka book so I cannot talk about it, but one book on all of the navies in this period must be very big and general. John Tredrea & Eduard Sozev have gone back to Russian sources and have if possible gone for each ship name by name, size by size, armament by armament and the history of the said ship. I think if one or more had a green paint job they would have said. This book was published in 2010. It maybe wrong. But I for one reading it think not. So I stand by my black and white Russian fleet. Ed, if one day we can put our fleets together and be apart of a big game, would make me a very happy man. be they green and white or not.
Rab,
Thank for showing me the way to the TMP thread.
Be safe all
Rory

[Gunner]

Rab & Ed,
O.K. Both of you are using the same source, Ray Trockim. He uses 2 sources. One is "Splicing the Mainbrace" by Rod Langton in the "Miniature Wargames" January 1990. At no point is the colour of Russian hulls shown or talked about. This article is the bases of his " A Guide to Assembly, Painting & Rigging of Napoleonic Naval Models in Scale 1:1200" published in April 1999. In this book he says on page 20 "There are Reports that some Spanish vessels and several Russians were black". Again no green. Sources 2 I have not seen Otto von Pivka book so I cannot talk about it, but one book on all of the navies in this period must be very big and general. John Tredrea & Eduard Sozev have gone back to Russian sources and have if possible gone for each ship name by name, size by size, armament by armament and the history of the said ship. I think if one or more had a green paint job they would have said. This book was published in 2010. It maybe wrong. But I for one reading it think not. So I stand by my black and white Russian fleet. Ed, if one day we can put our fleets together and be apart of a big game, would make me a very happy man. be they green and white or not.
Rab,
Thank for showing me the way to the TMP thread.
Be safe all
Rory

I have Pivka's, Navies of the Napoleonic Era, and while he goes in great detail on colors and markings of Russian Naval uniforms, I can find no mention of ship colors.

[Devsdoc]

I have Pivka's, Navies of the Napoleonic Era, and while he goes in great detail on colors and markings of Russian Naval uniforms, I can find no mention of ship colors.

Ed,
I just love your ships, and hope you can get around to getting them on the games table again. As said before, If I win the lotto in the U.K. I'm shipping me and my ships state side for some games. If my dream comes true. I hope I can add you to my list. Is Pivka's book worth looking out for?
Be safe
Rory

[Gunner]

Ed,
I just love your ships, and hope you can get around to getting them on the games table again. As said before, If I win the lotto in the U.K. I'm shipping me and my ships state side for some games. If my dream comes true. I hope I can add you to my list. Is Pivka's book worth looking out for?
Be safe
Rory

Rory, if you ever get to Southern Arizona, I'd be happy to put you up for a while.
Pivka's, Navies of the Napoleonic Era was one of the first books to go into my Napoleonic library. Amazon.com has some in good condition for under $6.00 U.S.

[Wear Ship Dave]

Rory, if you ever get to Southern Arizona, I'd be happy to put you up for a while.
Pivka's, Navies of the Napoleonic Era was one of the first books to go into my Napoleonic library. Amazon.com has some in good condition for under $6.00 U.S.

There is a book by the same name by Digby... Is this a re-release perhaps? It even has the same number of pages.

[Wear Ship Dave]

Pivka's, Navies of the Napoleonic Era was one of the first books to go into my Napoleonic library. Amazon.com has some in good condition for under $6.00 U.S.

I received a copy of it in the mail today. Found it on Amazon, residing in a used book store in Georgia. It cost me $5.68 +$4.00 shipping. The dust cover is a bit tattered, but the book itself is in very good condition.

I look forward to reading it.

[7eat51]

Hi Eric,

One would think that after 200 years there would be a definitive book on ship colors of the Napoleonic wars. Too bad Osprey publishing doesn't push for a Naval Ship colors of the Napoleonic wars series and list the different sources (with color pictures).
As for me, I'll stick with the Nelson checker for the British at Trafalgar, and for my Russians, Dark Green with white stripes (there's no mistaking my Russians on the seas of battle).

Ed, I would love such a book, and it seems like a very sensible and marketable title. I am surprised that there does not seem to be such a book in print. Sounds like a project for some folks here.

When you have sufficiently salvaged your ships, would mind posting some pics of different nations in one photo? It would be nice to see side-by-side comparisons, for example, between a British, French, Spanish, Russian, etc. ships-of-the-line.

Oh, Eric,
Its a mine-field out there. Each of us going off in our own way. I know my ships are not all the right colours. That is for ease of playing only. If I was doing bigger scales or one of the famous ships, I would try and make it right. At this scale 1-1200 or smaller I'm looking at fleets. Some of you are aiming for ship duels of maybe max 2 or 3 ships a side. So you are using named ships and want them 100% right. That is great and O.K. by me. I love fleet actions, so paint for fleets. For me at 1-1200 or as you have 1-4800 scale I would colour for fleets.

Rory, I like your style. My modeling will be for gaming and the fun of trying my hand at modeling. If I am not completely incompetent at it, I might try a model for "show" one day. I can see in such a project the desire for historical accurateness. For gaming, I was thinking close is good enough. I would defer, though, to those of you with experience. Thanks for the sound advice.

[Gunner]

Rab,
I cannot open your named TMP thread. Can you give me Date and thread name of this please. So I can look at it.
Be safe
Rory

Rory, another way to find http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=180515 is to use a search engine like Bing, and type in Painting Russian ships.