Rory's Russian Fleet

[Cmmdre]

Admiral of the fleets. Rory you've outdone yourself.

[Devsdoc]

A truly impressive fleet, Rory! Thanks for sharing the photos. The wreck turned out really well!

Which engagements are you going to be recreating with this fleet? Be sure to post those photos whenever those battles take place.

They have! last Monday. But this dummy forgot his camera! It was against the French on an English shore-line (who hated both fleets). We had 6 turns and no winner. I would love to play against Vol's Dutch fleet. Maybe one day

Very nice Rory. Much bigger photos than in your e-mail. The wreck looks good. I like your Toulon tower on the shore too. Now if I can just get my Dutch fleet finished........

One day, Vol. One day

She is a beautifully done fleet, Rory. The amount of time you must have spent on rigging kind of boggles my mind. Will we see some future pics of these in battle?

Well done, my Friend. :hats off:

When I saw these photos in your email, you made up my mind concerning the first round of Tumbling Dice minis; they will be Russian. Afterwards, I realized they will coincide with GMT's upcoming release of Blue Cross, White Ensign. Thanks for the inspiration.

If I remember my camera, I'm sorry for the inspiration. The Russians are all black and white. At the end I started to hate them.

Fantastic fleet Rory, you continue to impress with fine work.

Thank you, Daniel.

Great fleet, Rory.

One point: The dismasted ship looks funny.

I think the enemy carronades cleared the deck before they aimed at the masts.

You are right. After painting her I thought she need more. I added the stringing? I think it still looks wrong.

Admiral of the fleets. Rory you've outdone yourself.

Think you, Paul. I thought I had lost you as a friend, I'm glad it is not so.

Be safe, to you all
Rory

[Rabbit]

The Russians are all black and white. At the end I started to hate them.

Rory,

I see from earlier posts you have made that you have the book, Russian Warships in the age of sail; Design construction careers and fates. Are all Russian ships in black and white, to your knowledge, I have seen info that suggests that some had green hulls?

From TMP
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=180515

Were any painted Green with White stripes that you know of, or was this a later occurrence or even a result of fading paint and poor colour reproduction?

rabbit

[Gunner]

Rory,

I see from earlier posts you have made that you have the book, Russian Warships in the age of sail; Design construction careers and fates. Are all Russian ships in black and white, to your knowledge, I have seen info that suggests that some had green hulls?

From TMP
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=180515

Were any painted Green with White stripes that you know of, or was this a later occurrence or even a result of fading paint and poor colour reproduction?

rabbit

I don't remember where but, I remember reading that they were painted a dark green with white stripes.
When I get time, I'll give mine a little darker wash. Along with other improvements.

[Volunteer]

I don't remember where but, I remember reading that they were painted a dark green with white stripes.
When I get time, I'll give mine a little darker wash. Along with other improvements.

Ed, where did you get the furled driver sail for this ship? I've not seen one before from any of the different makers.

Vol

[David Manley]

Ed, where did you get the furled driver sail for this ship? I've not seen one before from any of the different makers.

Vol

Its in one of the Langton sail sets.

[Gunner]

Its in one of the Langton sail sets.

Good eyes David. It is Langton.

[Nightmoss]

I don't remember where but, I remember reading that they were painted a dark green with white stripes.
When I get time, I'll give mine a little darker wash. Along with other improvements.

Nice ship, Ed. I like the studded sails!

[Devsdoc]

Rory,

I see from earlier posts you have made that you have the book, Russian Warships in the age of sail; Design construction careers and fates. Are all Russian ships in black and white, to your knowledge, I have seen info that suggests that some had green hulls?

From TMP
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=180515

Were any painted Green with White stripes that you know of, or was this a later occurrence or even a result of fading paint and poor colour reproduction?

rabbit

Hi Rab,
I would stand by this above book. The cover shows laid-up ships of the Russian fleet 1851. Lots of black and white. In 1696 Peter 1st became sole ruler of Russian. He made a number of reforms to the Russian fleets. He opened 2 maritime academies, established a new system of schools to teach navigation. He replaced the white dress uniform for dark green. He also set a uniformed colour for Russian war ships of white on black. So between around 1697? to 1851 is a lot of black and white. We know sea water can change colours. Maybe one or two ships had different colours, I don't know?

Rory:

Nice work. Looks like you used Langton's rigging method, is that right?

On the wrecked ship I might suggest removing some of the rigging lines and sails if you can. The rigging would look better attached to the corners of the sails and trailing off in the water. I think some of the wreckage would have been carried off still attached to the masts. Maybe a bit of "less is better" if you will.

Eric

Hi Eric,
I rig as I showed in my thread. Langton's method "ish"
This is only my 3rd wrecked ship. The rigging on this one looks like spray crazy string, not good. But I do like the sails on this one. I'm learning too. I will not re-do this one, as it is just a marker. I plan to make a number of them min 2 for each fleet. I hope to get better each time

I don't remember where but, I remember reading that they were painted a dark green with white stripes.
When I get time, I'll give mine a little darker wash. Along with other improvements.

Hi Ed,
I love your ships. You must fix them. Please see above about colours
Be safe to you all
Rory

[Devsdoc]

Rory,

I see from earlier posts you have made that you have the book, Russian Warships in the age of sail; Design construction careers and fates. Are all Russian ships in black and white, to your knowledge, I have seen info that suggests that some had green hulls?

From TMP
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=180515

Were any painted Green with White stripes that you know of, or was this a later occurrence or even a result of fading paint and poor colour reproduction?

rabbit

Rab,
I cannot open your named TMP thread. Can you give me Date and thread name of this please. So I can look at it.
Be safe
Rory

[Rabbit]

Rab,
I cannot open your named TMP thread. Can you give me Date and thread name of this please. So I can look at it.
Be safe
Rory

Rory, the TMP thread is in the “ Napoleonic Naval Painting Guides Message Board!
"Painting Russian ships" Topic topic title
First post by fleabeard 28 Sep 2009 1:22 p.m. PST

Last post by rabbit (yes it is) 15 Feb 2012 12:55 p.m. PST

Type Russian ships into the search function and it should be one of the ones that comes up.

Good luck.

If I had such a tome, I too would follow its word so Black and white they will be unless someone comes up with a different source.
Interesting Quote from Admiral Lazarev …


Is the book Russian?, (it does not look as though it is) I have two copies of the same Russian uniform book, a buddy has a third, yet the colour plates in each book vary dramatically, even though they were all nominally the same print run...

rabbit

[Devsdoc]

Very odd that my copy shows only one black stripe just above the waterline and the rest dark green with white stripes. It might my cover was the end of the cover run and the ink was starting to fade. Yes I read the 5th paragraph of page 28 but, I wonder if all Russian ships could have been repainted in his short 5 year reign, if it was even implemented.
Please see http://my.erinet.com/~bp/pt_napnv.ht...al_Ship_Colors showing green hull & white stripes by Ray Trochim.

Hi Ed,
Thanks for your information. I will and do not put anyone down. To see painted ships is just a great thing to see. What colour they are is for the owner of the ship to pick. I'm very sorry but I can see green rails and green at the water line only. The rest is black and white. I will answer the rest below.

Interesting link, Ed. Thanks for sharing it.

I think this discussion illustrates that our knowledge and understanding of history is always incomplete, and this discrepancies are not uncommon.

From a gaming point-of-view, do you recommend keeping fleets uniform in color, or is some variation acceptable in not causing confusion for players? I am not an experienced AoS mini player, and the traditional hex-and-chit games I have played basically use single national colors.

Oh, Eric,
Its a mine-field out there. Each of us going off in our own way. I know my ships are not all the right colours. That is for ease of playing only. If I was doing bigger scales or one of the famous ships, I would try and make it right. At this scale 1-1200 or smaller I'm looking at fleets. Some of you are aiming for ship duels of maybe max 2 or 3 ships a side. So you are using named ships and want them 100% right. That is great and O.K. by me. I love fleet actions, so paint for fleets. For me at 1-1200 or as you have 1-4800 scale I would colour for fleets.

Rory, the TMP thread is in the “ Napoleonic Naval Painting Guides Message Board!
"Painting Russian ships" Topic topic title
First post by fleabeard 28 Sep 2009 1:22 p.m. PST

Last post by rabbit (yes it is) 15 Feb 2012 12:55 p.m. PST

Type Russian ships into the search function and it should be one of the ones that comes up.

Good luck.

If I had such a tome, I too would follow its word so Black and white they will be unless someone comes up with a different source.
Interesting Quote from Admiral Lazarev …


Is the book Russian?, (it does not look as though it is) I have two copies of the same Russian uniform book, a buddy has a third, yet the colour plates in each book vary dramatically, even though they were all nominally the same print run...

rabbit

Rab & Ed,
O.K. Both of you are using the same source, Ray Trockim. He uses 2 sources. One is "Splicing the Mainbrace" by Rod Langton in the "Miniature Wargames" January 1990. At no point is the colour of Russian hulls shown or talked about. This article is the bases of his " A Guide to Assembly, Painting & Rigging of Napoleonic Naval Models in Scale 1:1200" published in April 1999. In this book he says on page 20 "There are Reports that some Spanish vessels and several Russians were black". Again no green. Sources 2 I have not seen Otto von Pivka book so I cannot talk about it, but one book on all of the navies in this period must be very big and general. John Tredrea & Eduard Sozev have gone back to Russian sources and have if possible gone for each ship name by name, size by size, armament by armament and the history of the said ship. I think if one or more had a green paint job they would have said. This book was published in 2010. It maybe wrong. But I for one reading it think not. So I stand by my black and white Russian fleet. Ed, if one day we can put our fleets together and be apart of a big game, would make me a very happy man. be they green and white or not.
Rab,
Thank for showing me the way to the TMP thread.
Be safe all
Rory

[Gunner]

Rab & Ed,
O.K. Both of you are using the same source, Ray Trockim. He uses 2 sources. One is "Splicing the Mainbrace" by Rod Langton in the "Miniature Wargames" January 1990. At no point is the colour of Russian hulls shown or talked about. This article is the bases of his " A Guide to Assembly, Painting & Rigging of Napoleonic Naval Models in Scale 1:1200" published in April 1999. In this book he says on page 20 "There are Reports that some Spanish vessels and several Russians were black". Again no green. Sources 2 I have not seen Otto von Pivka book so I cannot talk about it, but one book on all of the navies in this period must be very big and general. John Tredrea & Eduard Sozev have gone back to Russian sources and have if possible gone for each ship name by name, size by size, armament by armament and the history of the said ship. I think if one or more had a green paint job they would have said. This book was published in 2010. It maybe wrong. But I for one reading it think not. So I stand by my black and white Russian fleet. Ed, if one day we can put our fleets together and be apart of a big game, would make me a very happy man. be they green and white or not.
Rab,
Thank for showing me the way to the TMP thread.
Be safe all
Rory

I have Pivka's, Navies of the Napoleonic Era, and while he goes in great detail on colors and markings of Russian Naval uniforms, I can find no mention of ship colors.

[7eat51]

Hi Eric,

One would think that after 200 years there would be a definitive book on ship colors of the Napoleonic wars. Too bad Osprey publishing doesn't push for a Naval Ship colors of the Napoleonic wars series and list the different sources (with color pictures).
As for me, I'll stick with the Nelson checker for the British at Trafalgar, and for my Russians, Dark Green with white stripes (there's no mistaking my Russians on the seas of battle).

Ed, I would love such a book, and it seems like a very sensible and marketable title. I am surprised that there does not seem to be such a book in print. Sounds like a project for some folks here.

When you have sufficiently salvaged your ships, would mind posting some pics of different nations in one photo? It would be nice to see side-by-side comparisons, for example, between a British, French, Spanish, Russian, etc. ships-of-the-line.

Oh, Eric,
Its a mine-field out there. Each of us going off in our own way. I know my ships are not all the right colours. That is for ease of playing only. If I was doing bigger scales or one of the famous ships, I would try and make it right. At this scale 1-1200 or smaller I'm looking at fleets. Some of you are aiming for ship duels of maybe max 2 or 3 ships a side. So you are using named ships and want them 100% right. That is great and O.K. by me. I love fleet actions, so paint for fleets. For me at 1-1200 or as you have 1-4800 scale I would colour for fleets.

Rory, I like your style. My modeling will be for gaming and the fun of trying my hand at modeling. If I am not completely incompetent at it, I might try a model for "show" one day. I can see in such a project the desire for historical accurateness. For gaming, I was thinking close is good enough. I would defer, though, to those of you with experience. Thanks for the sound advice.

[Gunner]

Rab,
I cannot open your named TMP thread. Can you give me Date and thread name of this please. So I can look at it.
Be safe
Rory

Rory, another way to find http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=180515 is to use a search engine like Bing, and type in Painting Russian ships.

[Comte de Brueys]

...

You are right. After painting her I thought she need more. I added the stringing? I think it still looks wrong.

It's the position of the sails that cover the whole ship like a shroud.

If the mast is hit, it falls to one direction and pulls the sail to that direction, too.

I can imagine that one of the sails is shot off with a lucky hit, falling down on the deck and covers parts of the deck, but not three sails at once and the same time.

The crew would immediately try to get rid of this sail, that blocks the line of sight, movement on deck and some gunports.



But this is only a little notice. The fleet looks great.

[Devsdoc]

Hi Sven,
I liked the falling sails bit. And got carried away with them. I was thinking of the paintings of the end-game of the battle of Trafalgar with all the ships dismasted and just hulls.
But you are right. I'm learning as I go too. I like that folks look and see and comment on my ships. It is O.K. with me. The next one will be better. I hope! But not yet, I'm doing a 7 ship fleet of merchantman
Be safe
Rory