"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but Rum, Sodomy and the Lash." - Winston Churchill
An interesting video, given its title from Churchill's quote, on a sailor's life in Royal Navy during the age of sail.
Rum, Sodomy and the Lash
"Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but Rum, Sodomy and the Lash." - Winston Churchill
An interesting video, given its title from Churchill's quote, on a sailor's life in Royal Navy during the age of sail.
The origins of “Rum, sodomy and the lash” – Churchill’s alleged quip about British naval tradition…
Many books of quotations include a caustic quote attributed to Winston Churchill (1874-1965) in which he supposedly called British naval tradition nothing but “rum, sodomy, and the lash.” (Sometimes given as “rum, buggery and the lash,” using the old British slang term “buggery” to refer to homosexual sex.)
The earliest source commonly cited for this quip is the diary of former British diplomat, politician and author Harold Nicolson (1886-1968).
In a diary entry dated August 17, 1950, Nicolson recorded some anecdotes about Churchill.
One involves a version of the “rum, sodomy, and the lash” quote.
But the version Nicolson wrote about that day included “prayers” in the litany. His diary entry says:
…when Winston was at the Admiralty, the Board objected to some suggestion of his on the grounds that it would not be in accord with naval tradition. ‘Naval tradition? Naval tradition?’ said Winston. ‘Monstrous. Nothing but rum, sodomy, prayers and the lash.’
This is why some books of quotations give the alleged Churchill quote as “rum, sodomy, prayers and the lash.”
The source commonly cited for the shorter version of the naval tradition quip is a book of reminiscences by former British Vice-Admiral Peter Gretton (1912-1992). According to an anecdote in Sir Peter Gretton, Former Naval Person: Winston Churchill and the Royal Navy (1968), Churchill said it shortly after he was appointed First Lord of the Admiralty in 1911.
With his new authority, Churchill had ordered the British fleet to convert from coal to oil and was mothballing older ships in favor of smaller, faster ones.
A disgruntled Admiral indignantly told Churchill he was scuttling the tradition of the Royal Navy. Gretton wrote that Churchill answered:
“Don’t talk to me about naval tradition. It’s nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.”
Despite these oft-cited anecdotes, it appears that Winston Churchill never said any version of the naval tradition quote.
According to a post on the website of the Churchill Centre and Museum in London, Churchill told his personal assistant Anthony Montague-Browne that he never uttered such words.
Montague-Browne confirmed this to Richard Langworth, one of the most respected Churchill biographers.
In his great book about Churchill quotations and misquotes, Churchill by Himself: The Definitive Collection of Quotations, Langworth says that Montague-Browne personally told him that he had asked Churchill about the quote.
According to Montague-Browne, Churchill responded: “I never said it. I wish I had.”
Langworth notes that “rum, sodomy and the lash” is similar to “rum, bum and bacca” — a catchphrase from an old saying about the, er, pastimes of British sailors, dating back to the 1800s:
“Ashore it’s wine, women and song; aboard it’s rum, bum and concertina.” (Bum = a man’s rear end; bacca = tobacco.)
At any rate, it seems that attributing a quotation about rum, sodomy and the lash to Winston Churchill is nothing but an old British naval tradition.
Of course the number one quote attributed to Churchill will always be:
Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”
Here's other quotes of Churchill:
http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/bulldog.html
Last edited by Coog; 05-01-2013 at 14:29.
A few that I like:-
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."
"I like a man who grins when he fights."
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
Good video,
Things never change. Many of Churchill's remarks on government and economics are things that are a hot bed of discussion today in the United States.
Of course, we can't forget his EPIC takedown of an opposing member of Parliament at a dinner:
WC: "Would you sleep with me for a million pounds?"
Female MP: "I suppose..."
WC: "What about for five pence?"
MP, scandalized: [i]"What kind of woman do you take me for?!"
WC, in for the kill: "Madam, we have settled that question. Now we are just haggling over price..."
Originally Posted by Diamondback
this is usualy attributed to Shaw - but is probably by nither...
I've seen both, and having seen some of their more scathing quotes I'd believe it from either. LOL
Which is probably why it sticks...
Funny. When I first glanced at this, it wasn't immediately apparent to me who "WC" was, and I assumed for a moment that it was WC Fields, for whom it would also be quite fitting.
It probably depends on which side of the pond you live.
David shared a handy chart for translating British: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...light=language
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