It's a Start--Montanes--74 guns

[Nightmoss]

It's with some trepidation, but a lot of encouragement from folks here (thanks Vol, Rory, everyone), that I've finally started my first ever construction of a Napoleonic 1/1200 ship. While I'm still waiting on supplies (micro drills for the masts, paint and brushes) I was able to clean up and prime the hull this afternoon (after chores).

I wont flood the site with photos, but if I hit some snags along the way a picture might help me get appropriate suggestions? This site and members are a gold mine of information. I'm very impressed by the detail on the Langton minis. I just hope I don't botch them when I start the painting process.

Anyhow, here are a few shots of the hull. I can now see further attention on some of the guns will be needed.

[7eat51]

Best wishes Jim. Looking forward to seeing your progress and completed work.

I am starting my first one this summer - USS Constitution.

[Volunteer]

Nice start Jim. I find it very important to have a solid mount to get the painted lines straight on the strakes. It looks like you have mounted the hull on a popsickle stick. If that works for you, great. If it doesn't, don't get frustrated and give up. Just try a different mount until you find one that works for you. I went through three different mounts on my first ship. Eventually I landed on a small block of wood slightly wider than the hull that I could clamp in a vise. Just keep trying different methods until you land on one that works for you. My first ship was the Montanes too, but GHQ.

[Comte de Brueys]

Good luck with this first build, Jim.

[Gunner]

Looks your off to a good start. Unless you already have it, Langton's, "A Guide to: Assembly, Painting & Rigging of Napoleonic Naval Models in Scale 1:1200" is a must have for your book shelf.

[Berthier]

Looks your off to a good start. Unless you already have it, Langton's, "A Guide to: Assembly, Painting & Rigging of Napoleonic Naval Models in Scale 1:1200" is a must have for your book shelf.

Ed good recommendation. I ordered that book last week before even ordering any ships! Should be here any day and I'll read up on what needs to be done, go over the forum entries on painting and assembly of ships and order from Rod for my first shot at painting a mini ship in ...20+years

Any recommendations on which ship to do please..must be French though!

[Gunner]

Any recommendations on which ship to do please..must be French though!

Langton's NF5 French 80 gun would be a good choice. A bunch used at Trafalgar. Formidable, Bucentaure, Neptune, Indomptable. Even the English had the Tonnant.

[Sea Gull]

A good start Jim. As Vol says, don't give up. I never actually completed a single AoS ship as my patience soon ran out. Now though I'm older, not really any wiser, but I do have more patience than I used to. I've a Skytrex 3 decker ready for painting on my workbench now. I'm busy procrastinating about starting the painting though.

One thing about this site, apart from the magnificent examples of completed ships by so many members, is the encouragement and enthusiasm these masters show to the ham-fisted landlubbers who have just arrived on board so to speak.

[Green flash]

Very nice start,just take your time take a break when you need too,but most important have fun...

[Beowulf03809]

Very nice start. Can't wait to see it in progress.

The straight lines typical of paint jobs on AoS ships is really the biggest deterrent to me giving it a try. I just don't have the hand for it any more. Tiny detail is one thing but actual straight lines are a whole different animal for me.

Don't worry about 'flooding' with pics. You're not forcing anyone to look and some of us appreciate the flood!

[Nightmoss]

Thanks all for the words of support!

@Vol, I do have the jewelers hand clamp, which I'll be using when I start the detail painting (I think you've got one pictured on your blog and I've seen that many builders use them). I didn't want to get primer paint on it so I used the stick for the first coat.
@Gunner, I definitely have, "A Guide to: Assembly, Painting & Rigging of Napoleonic Naval Models in Scale 1:1200". I picked that up from Rob at Waterloo Minis when I purchased the Spanish squadron. It's a great resource.

One thing I've noticed in my reading of the Langton book as well as accounts elsewhere is the variety of painting conventions for all ships and all nationalities. Not only can they be different from ship to ship within navies, but also changed over time on any given ship. I've read some very interesting articles on how the Santissima Trinidad was actually painted at Trafalgar.

Still waiting on the micro drills before I can continue work on the sails. Basic hull painting is next, but I've got to get the small brushes for the deck and gun detail.

[Nightmoss]

I didn't get any more work done on the Montanes, but I did build a stand for the jewelers clamp. The idea comes via the link that Berthier posted back in March on the "Royal Sovereign" build by Wayne:

http://mainewargamershq.lefora.com/2...nic-ships-wip/

I slapped mine together pretty quickly but I think it's going to work out well, especially when I get to the rigging?

[Devsdoc]

Sorry for being late, just got into your thread. I just hold the ship in my hand and paint on my knee. I have no space for a work-shop. Only a small box which I put on a stool in front of my arm chair and a white towel over my knee. So it can be done and you will do it. but the drill is a must. I did the holes on a ship for a firend once at his place. He only had a power drill. It was pants to use, I have a hand drill which I find best. Only paint what YOU SEE not what your told to see. Looking forward to seeing your work. Flood this thread with your photo's.
Be safe
Rory

[Volunteer]

I just use a needle in my hand drill for the rigging holes. It goes through the soft metal like a hot knife through butter and makes a nice clean hole with no shavings or metal dust. I only use the micro drills for sizing the mast holes.

[Nightmoss]

Never even thought to use a needle, Vol. I'll give it a try. But the micro drills are coming so I'll try them out also. I like the idea of no metal shavings or dust to get in things.

Rory, I don't think I could hold the ships steady enough in my hands for painting. If that's how you do it, that's pretty impressive. I'll probably use the clamp for painting and the stand for rigging.

[7eat51]

Do you folks use Dremel tools and bits?

Any suggestions about brand of vice - not sinful behavior - the device that holds the ship while working on it?

[Nightmoss]

Hey Eric,

I'm using a pin vice that's pretty similar to the one used by 'Wayne' in his blog. See the second picture. Not an expensive one, but it's working well so far. It has two collets to allow for micro drills and up to 1/8" drills:

http://mainewargamershq.lefora.com/2...nic-ships-wip/

I can't recommend a specific brand though. There are all metal ones as well as wood handle ones. I may have to upgrade depending on how well this one holds up over time.

[Coog]

Do you folks use Dremel tools and bits?

I have a Dremel but do not like to use it much on models. I prefer handtools, particularly smaller ones designed for modeling.

[Devsdoc]

Do you folks use Dremel tools and bits?

Any suggestions about brand of vice - not sinful behavior - the device that holds the ship while working on it?

Hi Eric,
I can not help you about Vices for models. Sinful ones not on an open site I have only used a Dremel to drill holes once on a ship see post #13 on this thread. I used a Dremel on my wrecks and to make more or to open door ways, arches, windows and gunports on my harbour model. When I had a British ship in foreign service I would use the Dremel to remove the Skid Beams. Or have used Green Stuff to build up Skid Beams and finish them off with the Dremel on foreign ships in British service. Two ways to see if its British, Mizzen rigging and Skid Beams. Does Ares know this?
Be safe
Rory

[Volunteer]

Eric,
I use the same vice shown in Jim's photo, obtained from Micro Mart. I use my Dremel for all sorts of things, but never for drilling, that is strictly a hand operation.

Rory,
Skid beams??????? Please enlighten!

[7eat51]

Hey Guys, thanks for the answers, advice, and pointers. May is my time for gathering supplies and learning. June/July is my time for attempting to build. I look forward to sharing the process and results with you. I am sure I will have many questions along the way.

My wife makes jewelry. Something tells me these tools will see dual purpose use.

[Beowulf03809]

I don't think I'd trust a Dremel for drilling on something as small as a model. The damage done by a slip would be hard to fix. I only use a pin vice ('micro drill') for things like this myself. You can go as slow as you want and be very accurate. Sometimes a little push with a needle or similar sharp object to get a dimple where you intend to drill will help start off. I use my Dremel for many things both maintenance and hobby related but there are times where it's just too much.

[Gunner]

Sometimes a little push with a needle or similar sharp object to get a dimple where you intend to drill will help start off.

That'a a great Idea. Thanks Lawrence.

[Coog]

I don't think I'd trust a Dremel for drilling on something as small as a model. The damage done by a slip would be hard to fix. I only use a pin vice ('micro drill') for things like this myself. You can go as slow as you want and be very accurate. Sometimes a little push with a needle or similar sharp object to get a dimple where you intend to drill will help start off. I use my Dremel for many things both maintenance and hobby related but there are times where it's just too much.

Exactly the reason I don't use mine. Along with a micro drill, one of the handiest things to have is a set of small files, designed primarily for working with models. The files are in different shapes, making them useful for cleaning out and cutting holes, slots, and flat surfaces. Here's a link to a pageshowing them. You can also go to a page for drills from there.

http://www.micromark.com/filing.html

[Gunner]

Exactly the reason I don't use mine. Along with a micro drill, one of the handiest things to have is a set of small files, designed primarily for working with models. The files are in different shapes, making them useful for cleaning out and cutting holes, slots, and flat surfaces. Here's a link to a pageshowing them. You can also go to a page for drills from there.

http://www.micromark.com/filing.html

Perfect timing Coog. I was looking for a new set of drills.

[Coog]

Perfect timing Coog. I was looking for a new set of drills.

I don't know if you have used that company before, but they often run sales and you can get some good deals.

[Devsdoc]

I just use a needle in my hand drill for the rigging holes. It goes through the soft metal like a hot knife through butter and makes a nice clean hole with no shavings or metal dust. I only use the micro drills for sizing the mast holes.

Rory,
Skid beams??????? Please enlighten!

Sometimes a little push with a needle or similar sharp object to get a dimple where you intend to drill will help start off.

Vol, Lawrence,
I love the idea of the pin. You guy's are so good.

Vol,
Skid beams = Most nations store ships boats in the waist on the gun deck. The british ships layed beams across the waist and store ships boats on the skid beams. Note Langton does two ex french ships in british sevice a 80 gun and a 76 gun. They are the french models with skid (booms) beams. NB9 to 12.
Be safe
Rory

[Sea Gull]

Thanks Rory, learning something new each visit.

[Nightmoss]

I "finished" the sails this afternoon although I may go back to 'tweak' some of the painting. While I found this official or semi-official guide to painting Spanish ships I don't know if the colors come across aesthetically in this scale? So, while the yards are supposed to be black it looks rather stark. And I may repaint the ropes a tan rather than black? I'm learning a lot along the way, which means I will most likely do things differently on the next ship(s).

http://naval.histofig.com/Painting-o...c-Spanish.html

A couple of pics for your critiquing (I'm using my tablet to take the photos so the quality is not the best, sorry).

Next thing up is the ship itself. That's going to be a real challenge.

[Devsdoc]

Hi Jim,
STOP, DO NO MORE! They look good. Think whole ship not just masts. Once in the hull they will be more than good. Bloody good! Put them to one side and start your hull.
Be safe
Rory

[Gunner]

Jim, if you want to do more work on the masts I'd finish them first. It's a lot easier to tweak them now than after there mounted on the hull.

[Nightmoss]

Hi Jim,
STOP, DO NO MORE! They look good. Think whole ship not just masts. Once in the hull they will be more than good. Bloody good! Put them to one side and start your hull.
Be safe
Rory

Yes, sir. I think you're right it's time to work on the hull; deck first, then the really hard part. And thank you for the compliment. That means a lot coming from you.

@Gunner, If I do any more work on the masts, I'll definitely do it before mounting in the hull, thanks.

[Devsdoc]

Jim,
Your masts, your say! less is more. I've tweaked and wish I had not. They look as good as mine, or better.
Be safe
Rory

[Berthier]

Jim nice work and great to see the project from the start.

[Sea Gull]

Keep it up Jim. soon you'll be running with the experts.

[Volunteer]

Vol, Lawrence,
I love the idea of the pin. You guy's are so good.

Vol,
Skid beams = Most nations store ships boats in the waist on the gun deck. The british ships layed beams across the waist and store ships boats on the skid beams. Note Langton does two ex french ships in british sevice a 80 gun and a 76 gun. They are the french models with skid (booms) beams. NB9 to 12.
Be safe
Rory

OK Thanks Rory. I just didn't know what they were called.

[Nightmoss]

Nothing like close up photos to show you that more work needs to be done (or learned). I sort of finished the deck and hull this morning, but now I see all the little spots I've missed on painting and will need to touch up the most glaring errors. Others here have mentioned that it's best to avoid a ship at quarters with the guns runs out (at least for a first time effort). Having struggled with this big time I can readily agree this is really hard to get it to look right. So a few more photos before I go back and hit the few spots that need touch up.

[Coog]

Nothing like close up photos to show you that more work needs to be done (or learned). I sort of finished the deck and hull this morning, but now I see all the little spots I've missed on painting and will need to touch up the most glaring errors. Others here have mentioned that it's best to avoid a ship at quarters with the guns runs out (at least for a first time effort). Having struggled with this big time I can readily agree this is really hard to get it to look right. So a few more photos before I go back and hit the few spots that need touch up.

Don't worry about what you can see in close up photos. The camera will bring out imperfections every time. If it looks good to you using only your eyesight, it will look good to everyone else, particularly on the gaming table. Trying to get it perfect will drive you crazy.

[Cmmdre]

Jim I agree with Bobby. Nobody will be putting your models under the looking glass. I've looked at miniatures up close and thought I didn't like it for this reason or that and when it got to the table and into the game it looked great. Keep up the good work, it looks good to me if that helps. I have really enjoyed your posts and photos regarding this project.

[Sea Gull]

Brilliant effort Jim. I don't see any imperfections. Use the 3ft rule, what does it look like from 3ft? Hell even my 28mm stuff looks crap from close up, but it's passable from the 3 ft distance.
My advise is leave it as is and get the sails on, put the whole thing on a blue cloth on a table and stand back. If it looks good, job's done.

Get the next model ready for the next lesson.

[Devsdoc]

Hi Jim,
Yes! to all of the above. Your looking (very) good. There like kids, you will over do the 1st one. But after 3 or 4 you will get less picky, and think this will hide that etc,. Yours are looking better than mine. Go for it.
Be safe
Rory

[Gunner]

Your model looks good jim. But the decision is yours. If your happy with it, great job your done. If something about it bothers you and you have the time, by all means go for it. It's what makes you and not others happy that counts.

[Nightmoss]

Thanks all for the kind words and suggestions to be less critical. I'll never get to the 1st rate if I spend too much more time on this one. I'm going to get the sails in this afternoon and give it a dull coat. Maybe some more pics later today (taken at 3 feet).

[Nightmoss]

Sails are in, dull coat is applied and now for the really scary part; rigging. I think I'll read Rod Langton's book about 3 or 4 times again before I start on this step. A few pics to end the weekend.

[Volunteer]

Jim you definitely have a knack for painting. I'm envious. The ship is gorgeous. And it looks like there is plenty of room for rigging.

[7eat51]

Very impressive work. I will do my first one this summer, and can only hope to be half as good. Well done.

[Nightmoss]

Jim you definitely have a knack for painting. I'm envious. The ship is gorgeous. And it looks like there is plenty of room for rigging.

Wow, Vol, thank you! You and Rory, among others here, have provided the inspiration for a lot of this. Your blogs and photos is where I started before I did anything else. Putting me in contact with Rob at Waterloo Minis really helped too. And I will be asking you about rigging.

[Nightmoss]

Very impressive work. I will do my first one this summer, and can only hope to be half as good. Well done.

Thanks Eric. I will be anxious to see your Constitution when you get going this summer.

[Berthier]

Very nice work Jim, just the rigging to do now You've convinced me when I buy ships not to get them with guns deployed, I can see the added difficulty that would entail and I'm not ready yet.

[Devsdoc]

Jim,
Looking good! I'm so glad for you, but hate you too! She is looking GREAT. If the rigging is only 1/2 as good, You will have lovely ship.
Be safe
Rory