Yes
No
Not sure
From a marketing perspective, I would choose pirates over 1812, regardless of anniversary tie-ins. I think the broader public is familiar with pirates and not with 1812. SoG, like WoG, will attract general gamers and not just harder core historical wargamers.
From a personal perspective, I would love an 1812 expansion; however, I would like all types of expansions - Anglo-Dutch, Russian-Swedish, Spanish, etc.
Sadly your right. And not historical pirates. The public prefers Johnny Depp and "Pirates of the Caribbean" over Russell Crowe and "Master and Comander." Ares may should focus on phantom ships with ghost crews instead of HMS Surprise. That's where the real market is.Originally Posted by 7eat51
Are we nerds, or has Western Civilization died?The public prefers Johnny Depp and "Pirates of the Caribbean" over Russell Crowe and "Master and Comander." Ares may should focus on phantom ships with ghost crews instead of HMS Surprise. That's where the real market is.
Naw, not nerds. I've seen the hordes of nerds in game stores and they aren't playing historical war games! They can tell you about every aspect of many fantasy lands but not hardly anything about history or geography. And they are the intelligent ones in our society. Western Civilization is dying. Were not nerds, just Neanderthals.
Actually we're ahead of the coming trend. I've got a keen sense for these things.
It would be far to difficult for me to pass up on anything dealing with the War of 1812!!
I'd probably start another war just to make sure they make ships for the period!!
I hope those are your thoughts and not Ares.Sadly your right. And not historical pirates. The public prefers Johnny Depp and "Pirates of the Caribbean" over Russell Crowe and "Master and Comander." Ares may should focus on phantom ships with ghost crews instead of HMS Surprise. That's where the real market is.
Edward Scissorhands vs The Gladiator. See it at a theatre near you next holiday season.Sadly your right. And not historical pirates. The public prefers Johnny Depp and "Pirates of the Caribbean" over Russell Crowe and "Master and Comander." Ares may should focus on phantom ships with ghost crews instead of HMS Surprise. That's where the real market is.
I would guess that Ares is thinking that since the majority of the SGN business (and maybe all of their business) is coming from the US, and the closest cronological war to the Napoleonic era involving the US was the war of 1812, that should be their next stop.
While I will no doubt be a buyer of the 1812 ships, I would be a more enthusiastic buyer of the ships of Henry Morgan, William Kidd, Bartholomew Roberts, and Edward Teach.
In that regard, I think that to do the Black Pearl would cost more money in licensing fees than Ares could ever, to pardon the expression, swing.
It would also be a ship for which I, with my anachronistic tendencies, would have no interest.
As a new game, I would advise Ares to start with the broadest appealing lines. The last thing any of us need is for ships to sit on store shelves. There is a large box of WWII WoW planes at our FLGS. I have offered to buy and send them worldwide to Aerodrome members, and the store owner gave me a deal at $7 per plane. Only a half-dozen folks requested any, and most were the WWI planes or two models of WWII fighters. The rest are sitting at the store collecting dust. Furthermore, once the bug bites, general players might have more inclination to learn and care about other AoS historical periods.
I, too, am out on any fantasy-related ships. I just saw a tactical WWII kickstarter that has a horror-related stretch goal module. I really don't want to blend genres.
Perhaps one of the reasons that I have never "warmed up" to the WWII planes is that it seems like whoever has been selecting the planes has gone out of their way to pick obscure low production and low impact planes in order to represent as many nations as possible.
If it was my decision, Me 109's, FW190's, Spitfires, Hurricanes, Mustangs, Corsairs, P38's, and Zeros would always be in productions. Producing anything else would be on a once in a great while basis in low numbers aimed at the collector of obscura (Fiat and Gloster WWII biplanes? What are they thinking?).
The WWI release selection may be tending that way as well (look at what is in Series 5 and the upcoming Series 6 and then wonder about the D7 rerelease).
Broadening the product line and selection is fine, but I think that if the first tier craft (of any line) go out of production and all that a new player trying to get involved can do is buy odd ball fringe items or pay $30 - $60 per item on eBay for old stock they will likely move along to something else.
OK, Rant over...
I fully agree. It is hard to keep a business afloat, let alone grow it, without positive cash flow. Keep, as you say, "first tier" ships in production, and add to that limited runs of other ships. I think activity on the Aerodrome would support this. Many of the planes I see folks building on there are additional numbers of first tier planes they already have, but which Ares does not currently produce, for example Fokker D.VIIs. As a newbie myself, I have limited numbers of key aircraft because they are not in production, and I am not going to spend the money that folks are asking for them. I dislike the thought of having to build models of key planes/ships to play a game that already comes with its own minis. I can fully support building models of obscure ones, or building models just because I want to, for enjoyment's sake.
Well that may have some of it, but a large percentage of gamers, imho, declined the whole ww2 version of wings based on the switched scale. Looking at the basis of their rationale on switching from 144 to 200 scale, I would expect that their early jets would be about 1/600 and the newest jets around 1/1200 or 1/2400 scale. Sorry way too many people are buying the miniatures to game with and want them to look good on the shelf, which for most display types want the same scale for a given type - airplane, ship whatever. If Sails switches scales from 1000 to something else because they go to triremes or steam, it would be a no sale on my part.
Probably "Everyone and his dog makes those -- the market's saturated with cheap minis of the well-known stuff; the only chance of selling our stuff is to go places the Big Guys won't". It's been argued before.
Say it ain't so! I know as well as the two of you that you are correct but history has always been made by those who stand apart from the rest.
"Naw, not nerds. I've seen the hordes of nerds in game stores and they aren't playing historical war games! They can tell you about every aspect of many fantasy lands but not hardly anything about history or geography. And they are the intelligent ones in our society. Western Civilization is dying. Were not nerds, just Neanderthals."
True observations and words.
No, we're just the ones who see what comes when well-intentioned and intelligent but short-sighted people who don't know how to see the next miles down the road take the reigns--and they don't see that because they refuse to read the roadmap of history.
In short, we're the ones in our own small way fighting to keep the torch of enlightenment burning in an ever-dimming world... and sadly, I expect it to only get worse rather than better. Would you believe there are people in the generations after mine who think James Bond is new and Daniel Craig is the first actor to play him? (And to many of us who grew up on Connery and even MOORE, and the original Fleming novels, the casting of Craig was an Act of HERESY...)
Kind of like if someone had tried to evacuate the most important knowledge from the Library of Alexandria and preserve it when the barbarians (and I use that term by action, regardless of religion) at various times sacked and ultimately destroyed it...
I hate to say it but, Craig plays James Bond like Ian Fleming describes him in his books.
What Hollywood doesn't seem to get, it was the humor of Connery, Moore, Brosnan & the rest is what made 007 such a great hit. Craig just doesn't have it.
Much as I would like to see a range of U.S. ships, it would be a few too many for me to find room for.
My priority has to be filling the gaps in my present fleets.
After that, who knows?
Rob.
True, and the next closest to text canon was Dalton--but compared to the original tet-on-page, in many ways the Connery films were an IMPROVEMENT... and while Moore's The Man With The Golden Gun got a little out-there with the title weapon and some of its tech (in the book Scaramanga had a gold-plated Colt .45), at least IT you could discuss in polite society unlike most of the source novel. (Seriously, with the prevalent obscenity statutes at time of publication, it's a wonder that one ever saw print...)
But we're :OFF-TOPIC: now...
THAT whackjob? The REAL captain of the Black Pearl was Sir Henry Morgan...
For a while, anyway. LOL
NO, I haven't even got the spoils of my last KS for this system. WHy would I do it again.
http://www.innovatoys.com/metal-work...arl-model/6109
I need to get some pics of my copy....
I would want to see 1812 ships as expansion packs, but if the only way to get them is through a KS or if the KS 1812 pieces are going to be exclusives, then I would participate in it... just don't see the need for them to market the expansion this way.
Right, Bruce--I was thinking of Morgan's Pearl, which the overfamed rodent can't claim copyright on, as opposed to the fictional one built on an oil-rig support vessel... LOL
If Disney will go after the Ormond Street children's hospital...
"overfamed rodent..." LOL
I'll have to reserve judgement until I get a chance to play this Kickstarter. One at a time at this price!
But the period is interesting enough, sure.
Cool, more ships!
Models for the War of 1812 would actually span a period and theaters beyond the war itself. The American ships would also cover the Quasi War and the Barbary Wars as well as the War of 1812. The British ships would also be used against the French. In fact HMS Guerriere and HMS Java were originally French ships and would provide models for their French sisters. Quite a few battles outside the War of 1812 could be fought.
That's all good, and I think encouraging things like frigate vs frigate battles will be good for the system.
But I'll try all that for awhile before getting deeper involved.
Has anyone figured out how they plan on storing/transporting this stuff?
Same way I move the airplanes -- in their original packaging. What I'm trying to figure out is some way to replace the plastic inserts with foam.
Welcome aboard Kevin. When you have a minute, head on over to the Welcome Aboard forum and introduce yourself. Folks will glad to meet you.
http://sailsofglory.org/forumdisplay...Welcome-Aboard
Kind of hard to say about transportation until ships and extras are in hand. I still don't have a good feel for what they will be like. I am currently figuring out how to do WGF components. With an ever growing collection ...
There's very little from 1812 that DIDN'T see service in the Napoleonic Wars first--in fact, the Leda-class frigates that were popular for North American squadron assignments were outwardly almost direct copies of the French Hebe-class from Wave 2, so that's an immediate reprint that can also expand the pool for the Nappy fans... also, there were a lot of British ships from the American Revolutionary War still in service so that's another "Cheap Pop" expansion. RDM has already mentioned thinking about ideas for other time periods...
Oars of Glory at the Battle of Salamis or in the Punic Wars? LOL
Great name for the Trireme series.
There will have to be background CD for the series. Oars splashing in the water, a drum beating out the rowing cadence, and of course...the cracking of a whip.
Coog and Diamondback hit the nail on the head. The War of 1812 is Napoleonic. Part of what set the war off was other nations navys impressing US seamen into to fight the war in Europe. Which was going on everywhere except the Pacific, and due to Spanish holding there were even some skirmishes in that far off ocean.
Maybe we could lift & edit it from Ben Hur.
My arms ache just watching it. A couple of shots of the ships wouldn't hurt. Maybe from Cleopatra also.
Ya I know, you just can't please some people.
This one is not for me
FWIW I tried out a very simple galley variant and it worked extremely well. Still lots of development needed if I get the time but as and when I tet it advanced enough I shall post it here.
I would buy ships for the War of 1812, especially if they cover the battles on Lakes Ontario, Erie, and Champlain. I would buy these however they are produce: by KS or normal distribution channels.
I'm enjoying SoG so much, I think I'd be up for a new KS. I like the idea of Great Lakes small ship actions as well as the famous deep water frigate battles. Could this be part of a larger KS campaign? 1812, pus War of the Austrian Succession/ Seven Years War? I'd also like to see 1/1000 scale official "cutting out" action rules and maybe some 3-D terrain along the lines of Langton Miniatures work. I was expecting something different however. I'm not spreading rumors as I don't think there is anything being said about this, but I'd like to see a playable Amercan Civil War naval variant with both blue water and riverine actions, and dare I hope, a very playable WW1 naval game. I hope Ares has deep pockets but if they need another KS to take them forward, this time I will participate.
Personally, my advice to Ares would be to use Kickstarters sparingly in light of them being a direct competition with Brick & Mortar--maybe as a quick shot for cash-flows only or to get capital built up for launching new lines, and I'd definitely suggest that the Kickstarter Pledge rewards should include things unavailable anywhere else.
While I wouldn't buy more of them, I for one would be OK with the four Kickstarter ships being offered again as part of a new Kickstarter campaign, as long as they STAY only available when Ares runs a Kickstarter and the re-runs are well publicized, perhaps even having a "Second Run", "Third Run", etc note added to the product ID sticker.
If Ares did that it would ruin their credibility. They did say KS participants only. I for one would never believe them again.
Ed, that'd still be Kickstarter participants... there's a difference between "Only Available Through Kickstarter" and "Only Available Through THIS Kickstarter". Besides, they did say that it was that specific combo of sculpt, stats, paint AND package that was the exclusive... which leaves TONS of Lawyer Room.
I'm not saying they SHOULD, just that from certain interpretations of their wording they COULD and I for one would not hold it against them as long as the LETTER of previous statements was adhered to--and as long as there was some note on the package and maybe the card/log that could be clearly differentiated from our Day One Specials.
Then again, my perspective is a little different and just may be kinda skewed, having been involved with lots of games where I didn't even have any way to know they existed pre-2nd or 3rd set and seen lots of "what're YOU griping about? I got MINE so bleep you, Johnny-come-lately" attitudes through those years and games, sometimes severe enough to make me drop out completely. And if I'd been able to come up with a few hundred bucks more, I might've bought a few extra exclusives to set aside and cut rookies a break on later...
Maybe it's just me. I was brought up to think that when you said you would do something, you do it.
The promise of exclusives is what brought many people & $$ into the KS. I contributed because I didn't want to miss those four ships.
Their use of the molds for any other ship of the same class is up to them as long as they don't use the same name or color scheme.
What people missed out on is just a part of life. Help your friends, but don't support them.
Ed, the other thing is I also had to take several law classes as part of my abandoned-on-completion Business major, so I know very well how to parse the words in a document. Think of it as like a Marine enlistment contract that promises you training in aviation--you may end up a line grunt in a rifle platoon in Cuba or Korea, but they don't even have to send you to flight school because as long as they send you to some school involving airframe repair you've received "training for a career in aviation" and they've fullfilled their end of the bargain, so your ass belongs to the Corps for the duration of your enlistment contract.
EDIT: I just had another devious thought about something Ares could pull and stay within the letter of the Kickstarter offering's terms...
Given that the KS terms were about each KS exclusive ship-pack as a "package deal", they could also split the Side 1 and Side 2 of each KS ship and pair them up with a new counterpart--example, Fougueux with a new Side 2 and Redoutable with a new Side 1, which means new arrivals have four ships to buy in the reprint while completionists who were in from square one only need one of each.
I'm not advocating it myself, but I could see their lawyers telling them they could do it without breaching the *letter* of the KS terms. (Now, the *spirit* of 'em, you know and I know it's a clear End Run... but I'm just trying to read things like a lawyer might and see what kind of cards they could plausibly have up their sleeves.)
Last edited by Diamondback; 03-25-2014 at 18:28.
The subject of the Humphreys frigates mentioned in another thread brought me back to this thread, which was rather enjoyable re-reading I'll admit. So, knowing that fairly soon we'll be seeing a US frigate on the game table I'm wondering if Ares will address a War of 1812 set of ships or stick with the British and French focus for another year or two (whether Kickstarter or not)?
What might be the balance to one US frigate (Constitution) and one US sloop (Thorn/Atalanta) versus all the other ships from wave 1 and 2? Smaller ships for the Great Lakes has been discussed above, but I'm wondering if we'll see any US SOL's like the USS Independence or USS Washington? I realize these ships didn't see glorious historical action, but they served for years on station in the Mediterranean and elsewhere.
I honestly don't expect Ares to do this so which of the existing ships could one possibly modify on a ship log to fill in as a US SOL (keeping in mind this is from a modelers perspective, not a naval historian or architects)?
What really started this 'speculation' was my viewing of some of the great photos and illustrations from the "Old Navy" section of http://www.navsource.org. After looking at the USS Constitution images I then found all these other ships I never knew of, or recall reading any reference to. I guess that shows how much the six frigates dominated history and public awareness?
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