Where to Start with a 1/1200 Build?

[Nightmoss]

Seeing as there's going to be a fair amount of time before we get our hands on the SoG ships I think I'd like to try constructing a 1/1200 model in the interim (try being the operative word). I've done some repaints and kitbashing over the years, but nothing as detailed as some of the fantastic models I've seen here.

So, where do I start? I've looked through the Best Research and Hobby Links and read some of the opinions on manufacturers. It would appear Langton's Miniatures far exceeds everyone else. Do modelers here recommend starting with certain ships; size, rating, nationality, etc.?

Any advise gladly accepted.

[Devsdoc]

Hi Jim
I would say yes to Langtons. (I only use his ships). Get into Vol's blog on the" how to". I have said before, I would start with a 74-80 gun 3rd rate. I think to do one with closed gun ports first. why a 3rd rate? As it is the bigest class of S.o.L. as you get better at painting your first one's can hide in the pack (fleet). It is a good size to work with. Frigates are smaller, but a little harder to rig. Buy Rod Langton's book on how to paint and rig 1-1200 Napoleonic Ships. Do not be put off by size or detail. Drill holes for rigging before painting, you may not wish to rig at first but if you charge your mind later and have no holes. You will spit. We will help you. Good luck
Be safe
Rory

P.S. DON'T USE COTTON THREAD!

[Sea Gull]

Hi Jim
I would say yes to Langtons. (I only use his ships). Get into Vol's blog on the" how to". I have said before, I would start with a 74-80 gun 3rd rate. I think to do one with closed gun ports first. why a 3rd rate? As it is the bigest class of S.o.L. as you get better at painting your first one's can hide in the pack (fleet). It is a good size to work with. Frigates are smaller, but a little harder to rig. Buy Rod Langton's book on how to paint and rig 1-1200 Napoleonic Ships. Do not be put off by size or detail. Drill holes for rigging before painting, you may not wish to rig at first but if you charge your mind later and have no holes. You will spit. We will help you. Good luck
Be safe
Rory

P.S. DON'T USE COTTON THREAD!

Hi Rory, I never use cotton thread for painting !

I'm hoping to start painting an old Sytrex 3 decker this week. Mind you've I said that last weeek too.

[Nightmoss]

Hi Jim
I would say yes to Langtons. (I only use his ships). Get into Vol's blog on the" how to". I have said before, I would start with a 74-80 gun 3rd rate. I think to do one with closed gun ports first. why a 3rd rate? As it is the bigest class of S.o.L. as you get better at painting your first one's can hide in the pack (fleet). It is a good size to work with. Frigates are smaller, but a little harder to rig. Buy Rod Langton's book on how to paint and rig 1-1200 Napoleonic Ships. Do not be put off by size or detail. Drill holes for rigging before painting, you may not wish to rig at first but if you charge your mind later and have no holes. You will spit. We will help you. Good luck
Be safe
Rory

P.S. DON'T USE COTTON THREAD!

Hi Rory,
Many thanks for this information. It's extremely helpful. I have a follow up question for you or anyone who might know about suppliers of Langton's here in the States. Langton's lists two suppliers in the US who you can order from; Waterloo Minis Online Store and Brookhurst Hobbies. I know discussion of vendors can be an issue on some forums so hopefully this doesn't violate anything, but are either of these known to folks here? Or, are there other Langton suppliers Stateside who I could order from?
Thanks again for the feedback. I'm now anxious to get started.
Cheers,
Jim

[Devsdoc]

Hi Rory, I never use cotton thread for painting !

I'm hoping to start painting an old Sytrex 3 decker this week. Mind you've I said that last weeek too.

Chris
If you get a piece of wood and bang in two nails. Tie the cotton to the nails and run paint along the cotton thread. Lay the ship on it's side and ping the thread like a plum-bob. You get a lovely straight line. If the line is not straight, use the piece of wood to hammer the ship flat Rigging you fool
Be safe
Rory

Hi Rory,
Many thanks for this information. It's extremely helpful. I have a follow up question for you or anyone who might know about suppliers of Langton's here in the States. Langton's lists two suppliers in the US who you can order from; Waterloo Minis Online Store and Brookhurst Hobbies. I know discussion of vendors can be an issue on some forums so hopefully this doesn't violate anything, but are either of these known to folks here? Or, are there other Langton suppliers Stateside who I could order from?
Thanks again for the feedback. I'm now anxious to get started.
Cheers,
Jim

Jim.
Sorry but I can not help on this one (see my flag). But I think Vol talks about "Waterloo Minis". Ask Vol about it.
Be safe
Rory

[Nightmoss]

Jim.
Sorry but I can not help on this one (see my flag). But I think Vol talks about "Waterloo Minis". Ask Vol about it.
Be safe
Rory

Thanks Rory. I'll check in with Vol.

[David Manley]

The best advice I have is - be patient, don't rush, prepare.

Drill out the holes for the masts and bowsprit. If ylou are rigging the ship drill out securing holes in the bulwarks (they'll probably get clogged with paint, but you'll be able to clear them out with a pin - Rod's models often have dimples showing you where you need to drill). I usually fix the bowsprit to the hull before painting - I find its important to get areally good joint between the bowsprit and the hull, and fixing before painting helps a lot. Glue the sails to the masts and leave to set - I usually set up a jig using plasticene to let things sit in palce whilst the glue sets properly. And decide what tak the ship's sails will be set at - make sure the saisl on all the masts are at the same angle :)

with that its off to painting - I usually overcoat with pale buff which also serves as the colour for the decks, then the pale colour of the sides, then the black strakes, bow and stern. I dry brush the stern gallery detail, then pick out the windows with dark blue. Masts - I usually overcoat in white, then again with pale buff, pick out the mast in yellow or white, then the yards and fighting tops in black or brown. I wash the sails with a pale brown (GW Devlan Mud applied thinly works well) then dry brush white.


Once you get the hang of it the process s fairly quick and simple. I can usually paint up 2-3 ships in a couple of evenings. Rigging is another matter - about an hour or two per ship

[csadn]

P.S. DON'T USE COTTON THREAD!

For the benefit of the Ignorant (non-pejorative sense): Why?

[Devsdoc]

For the benefit of the Ignorant (non-pejorative sense): Why?

Hi Chris,
Cotton thread stretchers and the rigging becomes very loose. Polyester will not do this. Sorry for not saying before
Be safe
Rory

[Nightmoss]

The best advice I have is - be patient, don't rush, prepare.

Drill out the holes for the masts and bowsprit. If ylou are rigging the ship drill out securing holes in the bulwarks (they'll probably get clogged with paint, but you'll be able to clear them out with a pin - Rod's models often have dimples showing you where you need to drill). I usually fix the bowsprit to the hull before painting - I find its important to get areally good joint between the bowsprit and the hull, and fixing before painting helps a lot. Glue the sails to the masts and leave to set - I usually set up a jig using plasticene to let things sit in palce whilst the glue sets properly. And decide what tak the ship's sails will be set at - make sure the saisl on all the masts are at the same angle :)

with that its off to painting - I usually overcoat with pale buff which also serves as the colour for the decks, then the pale colour of the sides, then the black strakes, bow and stern. I dry brush the stern gallery detail, then pick out the windows with dark blue. Masts - I usually overcoat in white, then again with pale buff, pick out the mast in yellow or white, then the yards and fighting tops in black or brown. I wash the sails with a pale brown (GW Devlan Mud applied thinly works well) then dry brush white.


Once you get the hang of it the process s fairly quick and simple. I can usually paint up 2-3 ships in a couple of evenings. Rigging is another matter - about an hour or two per ship

Hi David,

Thank you for taking the time to send along these recommendations. I'll definitely take my time, having learned that lesson on several occasions in the past. I'm sure I'll refer back to this post and all the other great information I've received over the last couple of days.

Thanks again!

Jim

[Sea Gull]

Chris
If you get a piece of wood and bang in two nails. Tie the cotton to the nails and run paint along the cotton thread. Lay the ship on it's side and ping the thread like a plum-bob. You get a lovely straight line. If the line is not straight, use the piece of wood to hammer the ship flat Rigging you fool
Be safe
Rory

Great response Rory. Loved it.

[Nightmoss]

Well, I just ordered the Langton Spanish Squadron pack and his book on assembly and painting the miniatures. With almost everything included to begin assembly in these starter packs I figured I could start on a 3rd rate and work my way up?

Thanks one and all for the advice and encouragement. More later. . .

[Devsdoc]

Jim,
You do understand that SOG do not as yet do anything (ship-logs etc.) Spanish. If this is to be your first and only Napoleonic naval gaming, your ships will not see much action! Unless you make your own ships logs! I think it will be more British and French. The next nation seems to be U.S of A. But the Spanish must come at some point? Be thankful you did not pick Russian or Swedish.
Be safe
Rory

[Berthier]

Jim,
You do understand that SOG do not as yet do anything (ship-logs etc.) Spanish. If this is to be your first and only Napoleonic naval gaming, your ships will not see much action! Unless you make your own ships logs! I think it will be more British and French. The next nation seems to be U.S of A. But the Spanish must come at some point? Be thankful you did not pick Russian or Swedish.
Be safe
Rory

Rory
advanced rules cover Spanish
Rule 15.5 Spanish ships/squadrons

on contact with any other fleet roll a 6 sided die.
1-3 Spanish surrender immediately
4-5 remove 1/2 fleet sunk, rest surrender
6 roll again

to my Spanish friends this is said firmly tongue in cheek!

[Coog]

Spanish ships would fit better with the British and French ships of the period being produced now. However with the U. S. being the largest market, U. S. ships may take priority with Ares if it is believed greater sales can be achieved.

[Nightmoss]

Jim,
You do understand that SOG do not as yet do anything (ship-logs etc.) Spanish. If this is to be your first and only Napoleonic naval gaming, your ships will not see much action! Unless you make your own ships logs! I think it will be more British and French. The next nation seems to be U.S of A. But the Spanish must come at some point? Be thankful you did not pick Russian or Swedish.
Be safe
Rory

Thanks Rory,

I am fully expecting the Spanish to be well behind the British and French in ship releases over the next couple of years. British and French almost always garner the most attention, largely due to the economics for Ares and others. That being said I'll have enough British and French ships coming due to KS that I'd like to have something else to work on (and show off) until the Spanish inevitably arrive. I appreciate the input for sure, and something tells me that folks here will be developing their own ship logs for the Spanish, maybe even Russian and Swedish?

Best,
Jim

[David Manley]

Spanish ships would fit better with the British and French ships of the period being produced now. However with the U. S. being the largest market, U. S. ships may take priority with Ares if it is believed greater sales can be achieved.

We already know that more US frigates are coming down the pike following comments from Ares about the "pirate" models. In terms of sales I think the "greater" number of sales will turn out to be French, Spanish (eventually) and British 74s as they made up the backbone of the fleets (14, 8 and 16 at Trafalgar respectively), and I can quite easily see some of you guys splurging on that many and more for your fleet actions

[RichardPF]

Spanish ships would fit better with the British and French ships of the period being produced now. However with the U. S. being the largest market, U. S. ships may take priority with Ares if it is believed greater sales can be achieved.

We already know that more US frigates are coming down the pike following comments from Ares about the "pirate" models. In terms of sales I think the "greater" number of sales will turn out to be French, Spanish (eventually) and British 74s as they made up the backbone of the fleets (14, 8 and 16 at Trafalgar respectively), and I can quite easily see some of you guys splurging on that many and more for your fleet actions

Ares may have a slightly less than obvious bit of market intelligence gathering attached to the KS project (by design or happenstance) in the inclusion of HMS Victory and USS Constitution as equally priced options.

They will be able to get a slight gauge on the interest in US ships from the number of Constitutions requested and especially the ratio of Victory to Constitution models added by backers from each geographic region.

In this regard, I believe that those backers who order "one or more of each" will not yield as much information as those who order in differential quantities.

If there is not a significant enough order of Constitutions, especially from US backers, that may bode well, for example, for the Santísima Trinidad and friends appearing sooner rather than later.

[Nightmoss]

Well, I just ordered the Langton Spanish Squadron pack and his book on assembly and painting the miniatures. With almost everything included to begin assembly in these starter packs I figured I could start on a 3rd rate and work my way up?

Thanks one and all for the advice and encouragement. More later. . .

I heard back from Rob at Waterloo Minis and he's asking a question I'd like to share here. I've already requested Easy Sails with Courses Furled, but Rob also wants to know if I want Guns Run Out or Guns In on the hulls? For a newbie builder I would guess that painting with "guns in" is going to be substantially easier, but what do the experts here think? As always, any advice is happily received.

Best,
Jim

[DeRuyter]

I heard back from Rob at Waterloo Minis and he's asking a question I'd like to share here. I've already requested Easy Sails with Courses Furled, but Rob also wants to know if I want Guns Run Out or Guns In on the hulls? For a newbie builder I would guess that painting with "guns in" is going to be substantially easier, but what do the experts here think? As always, any advice is happily received.

Best,
Jim

My Langton's are a mix of both. Whether one is harder to paint depends on your painting technique. If you prime black then guns run out may be easier. Some people add a dab of blue/white paint to the of the barrel for effect.

Guns run out may be more authentic as the ships are at quarters and ready for battle.

[Nightmoss]

My Langton's are a mix of both. Whether one is harder to paint depends on your painting technique. If you prime black then guns run out may be easier. Some people add a dab of blue/white paint to the of the barrel for effect.

Guns run out may be more authentic as the ships are at quarters and ready for battle.

Thanks Eric. Your point on authenticity certainly came to mind when Rob asked the question. Thanks also for the tip on priming the guns.

[Devsdoc]

My Langton's are a mix of both. Whether one is harder to paint depends on your painting technique. If you prime black then guns run out may be easier. Some people add a dab of blue/white paint to the of the barrel for effect.

Guns run out may be more authentic as the ships are at quarters and ready for battle.

Thanks Eric. Your point on authenticity certainly came to mind when Rob asked the question. Thanks also for the tip on priming the guns.

Hi Both,
I would say for your first ship I would still do gun ports closed, so you get the feel of the ships. I would follow Eric's tip on painting guns. Some ships would go into action and be at quarters but still have the guns in-board so would be authentic. Alas no model maker does ships with only one side with the guns ran out. Or the lower gun deck ports closed and the upper gun deck(s) open. Now that would be cool.
Be safe
Rory

PS Jim just looking out for you my shipmate.

[Nightmoss]

Hi Both,
I would say for your first ship I would still do gun ports closed, so you get the feel of the ships. I would follow Eric's tip on painting guns. Some ships would go into action and be at quarters but still have the guns in-board so would be authentic. Alas no model maker does ships with only one side with the guns ran out. Or the lower gun deck ports closed and the upper gun deck(s) open. Now that would be cool.
Be safe
Rory

PS Jim just looking out for you my shipmate.

Thanks much, Rory. I certainly appreciate the guidance. I think as it stands I'm going to get a mixture of open and closed with the four ships. So, I'll start with the 3rd rate closed and hopefully move up from there.

I've just been looking at more examples of the fine work here and in various blogs, and it's a bit daunting to see how far I'll have to go to get to even half the expertise I've seen. Slow and sure. . .

[Nightmoss]

I normally make every effort to support my FLGS, but today's trip was a total wash out. I thought I could pick up some paints prior to the Langton minis arrival, only to find that much of their product has been packed up for AdeptiCon this weekend. I'm going to check out the Best Research and Hobby Links, but do folks here have a online preference for when the local stores can't or wont carry certain hobby items? Small drills, pin vises and needle files were not at the local hardware store either. Thanks.

[GrouperKicker]

Jim: You can sometimes find small drill bits, pin vises and needle files at Michael's or Hobby Lobby in a pinch. Looks like you are in WI... we have them here in Northern Illinois (about 20 mins from the border).

[Coog]

You can get them online at Micro-Mark. They have an enormous selection of modeling tools. I have a pin vise and set of micro drill bits from them among other tools. Here's a link:

http://www.micromark.com/

[7eat51]

Jim, my wife has had luck finding some of the mentioned items at model train stores.

Bobby, thanks for the link.

[Nightmoss]

Thank you Scott, Bobby and Eric. All are excellent suggestions. Scott, we do have Michael's locally and I'll check them out. I know they carry a lot of art supplies, which I was going to look in to for brushes and cleaning supplies. Bobby, I just checked the Micromark site and they have exactly what I've seen pictured in some of the builder blogs. Eric, we do have one small model train store, which I can scope out too. Thanks again, all.

[7eat51]

Looking forward to seeing your work Jim.

This summer, I will try my hand at modeling for the first time in decades, so you are in very good company. Depending on how they turn out, I might not have to buy damaged or sinking ships.

[Devsdoc]

Rory
advanced rules cover Spanish
Rule 15.5 Spanish ships/squadrons

on contact with any other fleet roll a 6 sided die.
1-3 Spanish surrender immediately
4-5 remove 1/2 fleet sunk, rest surrender
6 roll again

to my Spanish friends this is said firmly tongue in cheek!

Hi Daniel,
I love rule 15.5 Jim, Eric I look forward to seeing your new ships.
Be safe
Rory

[Nightmoss]

Looking forward to seeing your work Jim.

This summer, I will try my hand at modeling for the first time in decades, so you are in very good company. Depending on how they turn out, I might not have to buy damaged or sinking ships.

The Napoleonic 1/1200 minis will certainly up the level of expertise required to get even decent looking ships. The only recent stuff I've done is repaints of the plastic minis from the Leviathans game, but I'm ready for a bit more of a challenge.

Looking forward to seeing your work also, Eric. I especially like your idea involving damaged or sinking ships. That's something I can keep in mind if things don't go well.