I have been asked by a local what alternate collision rules are in use. While I'm ok with the current rules could people explain what house rules they use to handle collisions between friendly rules.
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I have been asked by a local what alternate collision rules are in use. While I'm ok with the current rules could people explain what house rules they use to handle collisions between friendly rules.
I use no collision rules of AI and the standard rules for players when colliding with islands etc but often give *mulligans for* people's first offenses in games.
Sorry, corrected :thumbsup:
Mulligansfor?
Mulligans for?
Bligh.
Although I believe I understand the reasoning behind ARES' penalizing collisions between friendly ships only, I have never distinguished between friendly and enemy collisions. I also have found that collisions can be overtly hazardous.
Bearing in mind that, with the exception of fire ships, captains tried very hard NOT to collide, I've recently been experimenting with a new "house rule"... the damage accrued by BOTH ships is merely the DIFFERENCE between their burdens. This is meant to simulate the last-minute attempt by both ships to steer clear, invoking a less destructive impact and sometimes even yields a 0! Entanglement is still tested for but, overall, the result is usually more of a bump than a crash!!
Any thoughts?
I like your thinking Michael.
It has never sit very well with me. Usually when two of your own ships collide the results are dire enough without such draconian penalties being added.
Just look at our battle at Doncaster to see the result.
Rob.
So the bigger one wins? :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by MWBell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bligh
I like the rules like they are, but would not use them with rookies. Time to time players get A damages instead of B damages.
Veterans like you... :minis:
Where do I find the battle you refer to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bligh
http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...Doncaster-2016
Picture 5 of first fleet action... :erk:
Thanks Sven.Quote:
Originally Posted by Comte de Brueys
Did all three French ships eventually collide? If so, I had a similar experience a few months back when a Spanish 74 broke our British line and my 74, unable to veer away, collided with it ... only to have another Brit 74 eventually ram my stern due to my untimely halt!! It turned out really messy: MY ship became the common battleground as both friend and foe boarded ME to fight it out!!! :shock: Sadly, as my bow was smack-dab in the middle of the Spanish 74's starboard broadside, she continued raking my hull, holing it badly and starting a fire which, particularly, "strongly encouraged" ALL boarders (both friend and foe) to withdraw to their respective ships with "great alacrity" in an effort to try to disentangle themselves before my flames spread!!!! Needless to say, all of this, combined with the horrible damage incurred by the initial collisions was too much and my ship eventually sunk!!!!! Although the Spanish ultimately lost the engagement, it was a sad day for ONE captain in the Royal Navy ... :sad:
But getting back to the above battle, how did the French ships get so disarrayed to begin with?
As for the other battles posted, I have to say, the harbor game looks magnificent! Rob, your works sure beat my ARES shore and battery cut-outs!! :thumbsup:
Looks like it was ALL fun!
Yes Mike,
I started with the cut outs as well. Then I saw Julien's work and started building some of my own. Sea legs now has my original shoreline.
As for the French ships, yes they did all run into each other.
Quite amusing as at Donny the year before, Commodore Manley ran afoul of an enemy ship, and each of our following ships ploughed into his stern. I was the last ship in the rear, and despite having time to alter course, still clipped the next in line. That will teach us not to sail too close in future. In an attempt to prevent the enemy cutting the line we ended up doing more damage, and left ourselves sitting ducks.
Rob.
Hello!
We too were unhappy about the collision rules in about half of the collisions as the ships behaved pretty unrealistic in many cases: Why would a sloop under full sails suddenly stop its movement just to crash into a heavy and slow ship turning through the wind, when it would normally dash by and overlap a bit with its rear?
I normally used Collision damage only against friendly ships, but with these rules and some experience in steering my ships, I will use the new rules on all ships (except playing with beginners)
So I developed alternative rules for collision, we hopefully find more satisfying in the future. I wrote them in German and try my best to translate them to English...
If the bases of two or more ships would overlap after movement the movement is not applied. Instead the ships turn order is determined as follows:
1. Theoretical ending position: A ship, that would overlap with its rear half is prior to a ship that would overlap with the front half.
2. Position to the wind: green prior to orange prior to red.
3. The speed: Full Sails prior to Battle Sails prior to backed Sails.
4. Burden: High Burden prior to low Burden.
The ship meeting more of these 4 criteria (or at a draw winning the higher Criteria) can decide to move first, or if this would seem unrealistic, decide that both ships are moved at the same pace until they first touch, following the lines.
e.g. Ship A meeting criteria 1 and ship B meeting criteria 2 and 4, ship B would move first.
All ships under full sails, that collide with another ship by at least the width of a ruler apply collision damage (to both, friendly or enemy ships) as the official rules say.
All ships under Battle sails, that collide with another ship prow to prow by at least the width of a ruler, apply collison damage as the official rules say.
All ships under battle sails, that collide with another ship prow to side by at least the width of a ruler, apply collision damage to themselves using A and collision damage to the other ship using B. The same applies to collisions of prow to unmoved or reversing rear.
Please tell me if I'm wrong assuming the damage would be higher to the rammed ship, than to the ramming one - I do study Latin and know more about the antique seabattles than about these.
I'm happy about all feedback and playtesting of these alternative rules.
Best regards,
Konstantin
Not wishing to put you off your admirable quest for more realism, but damage would depend upon a series of factors Konstantin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sermocino
One would be the angle of collision. A glancing blow would tend to brush off the lighter ship with superficial damage. Eg. cat heads, anchor ripped off, cross trees damage, port lids, copper sheathing stripped away, the odd plank sprung etc, but a ship ramming another at almost 90 degrees with its bow would certainly inflict more damage to a ship of the same burden as itself because of the point loading, and then sheering action of the reinforced bow.
However, for a ship of greater burden the damage would be less because of the laws of energy. A more substantial ship of greater burden with reinforced sides built to deal with a broadside from another large ship would tend to transmit this mass back to the lighter ship rather like a Rugby fly half bouncing off a Forward.
Therefore, damage would be greater to the lighter ship in this case. There is a lot more to it than just these factors, as Dave Manley will undoubtedly show, but I hope that this will illustrate that once we stray too far from the rules as stated by Ares, life gets a whole lot more complex very quickly.
I think the first thing is to decide just how much you wish to delve into the Laws of motion and energy transmission, and then get Dave to help you work it out.
Rob.
Thank you for this clear answer. I'm happy to be brought back to the floor. :)
I know that I'm always a bit too fast when it comes to rule something. From your statment I see that the official rules for collisions do their job to reflect the physics of ships with different burden.
So maybe it's better not to try too much realism on collision... In fact I don't think it would have been a good idea to ram another ship anyway...
The term "collision" seems to be a bit misleading, especially when it comes to friendly ships, as only the bases collide and both ships would try to minimize the damage inflicted to their own ship, as I suppose.
To me the more important aspect of collision is the position of the ships, which often leads to uncomfortable solutions... I think, that one of Sails of Glory's greatest strenghts is the realistic movement of the ships, but as they meet they suddenly start to behave unpredictable and strange...
If you want a good laugh about what trouble a collision can cause have a look here:- http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...Doncaster-2016
All seems O.K. bothe Fleets in Battle order, and then the French get taken aback in the wind.
http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.p...4&d=1475608401
http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.p...6&d=1475608458
Rob.
For an even bigger laugh with the boot on the other foot look at Doncaster 15 Konstantin.
The fleets set off.
Attachment 25954
The approach.
Attachment 25955
The first collision.
Attachment 25956
The domino effect
Attachment 25957
Now there are five.
Attachment 25958
I was at the rear of the British line and still could not clear the traffic jam in time. Who needs extra penalties.
Rob.