Kickstarter ships comparison

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03-03-2021, 05:15
Capn Duff

Kickstarter ships comparison

A number of us indulged in the recent Kickstarter project from Henry, here on the forum.
So I thought I would show the newly acquired ships in comparison to the Ares versions.
These are the Spanish ships and I do not have the masts as yet, but I will show the hulls and hopefully you can see what they are like and maybe get some yourself, if you have access to a printer, all these are now available on Henry's site, I will get a link posted if enough interest.

so Here is Ares Mahonesa Frigate

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...4&d=1614770676

Here next to it is Herry Mahonesa class, please excuse the horrible paint job, in my excitement upon receiving I undercoated straight away, but I dont think the model was cured enough and so am having a devil of a job, but if this fails I can get another :happy:

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...2&d=1614770661

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...1&d=1614770632

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...9&d=1614770609

as you can see this actually looks a bit smaller than the Ares version, yes I can hear you all gasping, so with this one take your choice, I have all 6 Ares Mahonesa so this was purely to look at for me, but I am sure I will find a use.

Next here is Henry's Santissima, next to our own Clippers version ( all hail Clipper and the Elves), these look pretty much the same with Henry's being a bit larger, so am happy here

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...1&d=1614770443

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...0&d=1614770426

Now we get to it, here is Ares Santa Anna

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...8&d=1614770597

now next to Henry's Spanish 1st Rate

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...7&d=1614770566

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...5&d=1614770524

As you can see not MUCH difference:bleh:, unfortunately cant do a full check as no masts as yet, but hull wise this really looks the part to me at least.

Next Ares Spanish 74

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...4&d=1614770509

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...3&d=1614770498

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...2&d=1614770475

Again I think the pics say it all, just need to get the painting correct, but the new ships are bigger are they not. I intend to replace most of my Spanish now, sell off my first rates and maybe relegate my 74 to 64s, especially when the Nepo comes along.

Lastly a couple of pics showing Henry's 74 with Ares 1st wave

comparing to Brit 74, think this is the Elizabeth class

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...4&d=1614770254

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...3&d=1614770242

and a French Temeraire class

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...2&d=1614770224

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...1&d=1614770212

Once I get masts and the Brits I will post more.

For me, nicely done Henry thanks a lot
03-03-2021, 08:02
Nightmoss

Hey Chris. Thank you so much for the comparison shots of Ares vs Turner models. It certainly shows off the 'issues' we pointed out to Ares years back doesn't it?! The sculpts look fantastic.

As for the models themselves how did you get them so quickly? I've been told I can't expect to see any of the print ones I backed on Kickstarter until June or July?!

Again, thanks for posting pics and comparisons. :salute:
03-03-2021, 08:45
Capn Duff

Hey Jim, I backed for the files, received Spanish, Brits and just recently masts, that why my friend.
Glad you like the post and yes I agree it does show the difference, except surprisingly the frigate
03-03-2021, 13:15
Bligh

Thanks for these comparison pictures Chris. They certainly tell a tale of Two Cities!

Rob.
03-03-2021, 18:23
Nightmoss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capn Duff

Hey Jim, I backed for the files, received Spanish, Brits and just recently masts, that why my friend.
Glad you like the post and yes I agree it does show the difference, except surprisingly the frigate

Oh, that makes sense then. Sorry, my mistake. But they look awesome so I'm really stoked to get my print runs in Summer. I'm also holding on to the idea that Henry might do another Kickstarter Admiral's Edition focusing on the French. I would love to see him sculpt a l'Orient or l'Ocean!! Thanks again, Chris!
03-03-2021, 19:22
Dobbs

Yep, thanks for posting, Chris! I think I'm going to like the frigate. I always thought the Ares one looked beamy.

Good job, Henry! I'm chafing at the bit to receive my ships, but I'm patient. Honest I am!
03-03-2021, 23:56
Diamondback

One explanation: the Ares Spanish 74 is based on Bahama but IIRC is dimensioned as her original 64-gun specs, and the Meregildos is based on the Greenwich draught of Salvador del Mundo, which was noticeably smaller than all of her sisters.

I have three Purisima Concepcions on the way myself, and if Henry ever does a Meregildos I may commission the entire class from him--I only passed on Nepomucenos because we wanted to keep the shipped package to a reasonable size/cost at around 12-15 hulls and I already had most of that filled with the PC's, class-limits on Canada and Ganges to use for a private feasibility study along with a couple Intrepids (possibly more to follow if there's another run).

Elizabeth is if memory serves between six inches and three feet longer on MD than Bellona and slightly different underwater lines, but definitely an evolution of the older design. Eventually these, too, might be candidates for "upgrade."
03-05-2021, 03:31
TexaS

Chris, I can’t remember anyone complaining about the size of the frigates. It’s always been the 74s and 112s that’s too small. Quite a lot too small. The strange stats and sails billowing in the wrong direction made them even less desirable to play with.

When looking at all releases we’ve got since then I’m beginning to think that all those mistakes at the same time became too much. The nail in the coffin. We’ve not heard anything about new ships for years now.
03-05-2021, 06:33
David Manley

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamondback

One explanation: the Ares Spanish 74 is based on Bahama but IIRC is dimensioned as her original 64-gun specs, and the Meregildos is based on the Greenwich draught of Salvador del Mundo, which was noticeably smaller than all of her sisters.

I thought the conclusion we reached at the time was that someone had scaled them to 1/1200 rather than 1/1000?
03-05-2021, 06:36
David Manley

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexaS

When looking at all releases we’ve got since then I’m beginning to think that all those mistakes at the same time became too much. The nail in the coffin. We’ve not heard anything about new ships for years now.

There has been a great deal of discussion "behind the scenes" that I and I guess others have been involved in. At one point there were firm choices made (or at least the impression that firm choices had been made) on several designs which I think would have gone down extremely well. Also thr oft-spoken about pirates version which would almost certainly have required a separate range in a larger scale. But as yet nothing has come to pass.
03-05-2021, 08:02
Capn Duff

Hi guys, my comment about the frigate seems to have been taken skew wiff, what I meant was Henry.’s model was a bit shorter than Ares version, where as we all complained the other Spanish ships released were smaller than should be.
03-05-2021, 09:04
Diamondback

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Manley

I thought the conclusion we reached at the time was that someone had scaled them to 1/1200 rather than 1/1000?

I think a botched measurement process made most of the new releases ~15-20% undersize. SdM is at least in part accounted for by the Greenwich drought--their current engineer INSISTS Wave 1 was oversized though.

We also know Ares will NEVER drop an "Oops, we made a mistake, our bad" beyond me accepting responsibility for my own like Constitution overlength, which even at the time I had remarked that "something seems really odd about this data" and I should have cross-referenced additional material to check Winfield. (BWAS 1793-1817 1st Ed. listed President as 197', which seemed odd because "a frigate longer than a 3-decker SOL?" 197' OAL is plausible but the key measure of LBP or Main Deck should have been around 175'.
03-05-2021, 09:06
Diamondback

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capn Duff

Hi guys, my comment about the frigate seems to have been taken skew wiff, what I meant was Henry.’s model was a bit shorter than Ares version, where as we all complained the other Spanish ships released were smaller than should be.

Chris, IIRC they cranked things up a little on Mahonesa in response to the previous undersize, the pendulum may have swung a little too far.

BTW, the wonky stats are deliberate Munchkinry, when I grilled RdM he told me "we meant to do that" but didn't say why. The past 6-8 months comms have been silent on both Wings and Sails projects...
03-05-2021, 09:38
Bligh

Looks as if Henry is going to be our saviour for the forseeable future then gentlemen. I intend to just get on with games and ignore the historixal ship sizes unless playing an historical scenario, which is very few and far between these days.
Rob.
03-05-2021, 10:21
Diamondback

Worth noting thaty in the first edition of BWAS 1793, Winfield considered the Purisima Concepcion and Meregildos classes "near sisters," so while there are some subtle differences you should be just fine using Henry's San Jose as a stand-in replacement. I'm going through the old paint maps Rob sent me at Ares, trying to develop plans to replicate the official colors from Vallejo's catalog as a "repair/touchup guide."

Speaking for myself, though, I'm going to hold off on Wholesale Replacement until Henry drops a Meregildos of his own--right now trying to work the engineering on the SPanish 74's is on hold waiting for either English translations of Spanish sources or for Spanish Warships in the Age of Sail to go from "unpublished manuscript" to "print." Once I have that, I'll know how many Nepomucenos I need to see about sneaking into the schedule next time Henry runs a batch... kinda sad that my two Intrepids sound like the only hardcopies other than Henry's prototypes, and I know someday I'll need a third at least from the ships we already have.