good
That does look rather good
Printable View
You're ahead of me, Ken -- I had my Niagara almost assembled and painted but had to pause and wait for Shapeways to ship me a new foremast (they lost the one I ordered during processing).
FYI, the hulls on the latest model -- Royal George class sloop corvettes -- have a higher waterline that should allow for the authentic painted stripe. And if you like the Niagara masts, you should really love my new and improved masts on the Royal George, which have the sails and mast joined as a single part.
Re: Holes on the deck for masts -- I actually do design them in the model, but it turns out that the holes are too small a detail to print. If I look closely I can sometimes see a little circle where the hole would be, and that can serve as a guide on placement. I didn't drill any holes for my masts -- just super glued them on, and they sit solid as can be. And yes, a sternwards rake of about 5 degrees looks right -- that's what I did, too.
Thanks for the photos and informational post Ken. I just got word that Shapeways was going to ship my order priority mail, but the actual confirmation email still hasn't arrived. I expect I'll be working on my ship come 2015, which gives you (and Gina) plenty of time to post the do's and don'ts before I start construction. :happy:
It will be interesting to see how the completed models compare with the U.S.S. Thorn.
I got my christmas out of the way yesterday to accommodate everyone's schedules. My wife works today (Nurses don't get holidays off because stupid people hurt themselves more on holidays than they do at any other time. So, I have the whole day to myself. So naturally, I started working immediately on the Niagara. The first thing I did was grab a piece of boxwood doll house shingles.
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This lets me do two things. It makes the ship more realistic looking by letting it heel to leeward. It also gives me enough of the inward side of the ship to do a nice gunport stripe.
After gluing the hull to the basswood, I filed down the wood to match the hull.
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I drilled holes for the masts (when I actually glue the masts in, I will glue them at the proper rake.) and sort of taped everything together to see if it looks OK.
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The next thing to do is dismantle everything without breaking it and try to see if my old arthritic finger bones still have some precision in them to paint it.
Looks great, Ken. Nice idea using the basswood shingles. Looking forward to seeing what you do next. My Niagara order actually arrived yesterday, but I'm not sure when I'll get to work on the various pieces. As you said above, the hull is quite small.
:thumbsup:
Super, Ken!
Would you mind if I reposted any of these photos of the assembled model, with credit, on the Shapeways site just so people could see what it looks like?
Be my guest, Gina. I will have more pics coming later today. I'm almost finished painting the hull!
Here's a scaled US ensign I made for the Niagara model, taken from the actual flag on the actual ship:
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Great, Gina. Thanks. Here's pics of the painted hull:
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My wooden hull is actually too sloped, now that I look at the pics. I should have kept the sides straight up and down from the railing so the stripe showed more clearly!
TaaaaaaaDaaaaaa! A one day build from scratch. I started at 6am and it is now 4pm. 10 Hours. Time for Beer!
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That final pic is the Niagara meeting up with the Thorn. The mainmast sails are too low. I fixed that. I am printing out and applying Gina's flag as I type this.
Here's Gina's flag attached to the main mast:
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This is why cross platform printing is always a problem.
Looks fantastic Ken -- in the pics I've seen of Niagara, the ensign has always been abaft the trailing edge of the spanker, hauled up against the upper yard.
The ensign doesn't looks as overlarge when placed there. In fact I think they had them this size to aid in recognition at a distance -- or perhaps for pure patriotic pride?
You are right. I will move it thither. The upper yard is called the gaff. The lower yard is called the boom.
Excellent job! A fine looking ship indeed.
And while checking out the Radio Control forums today for any new scale sailing ship additions I saw this posting from August of 2014. Another US brig no less! Here's the link and video. Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0AKEtUx0eQ#t=94
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0AKEtUx0eQ#t=94
P.S. Ken I tried to give you some rep for this one day build, but I guess I have to spread it around before I can give you more.
As it turns out further down the forum pages I see someone is scratch building an RC version of the USS Niagara. Here's the link if you're interested.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2181587
They have a ways yet to go, but the first float test was a success in November 2014.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP2N8R6iW7A
Finished my Niagara today. I debated adding ratlines and eventually did so after taking a number of photos. Here's one, with the remainder uploaded in my SoG repaints album. Cheers!
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Jim, I REALLY like the look of your Niagara.
How did you do your base?
Are your lines paintbrush bristles or thread method?
You even got the ensign blowing the right way for the set of the sails!
But the important question is, are *you* happy with it? Did it give you the value you hoped for? Do you think it will play well with others? What are your plans for it?
Now she needs a worthy opponent -- the HMS Detroit/Royal George/Wolfe sloop corvette model is available now (hint hint).
Jim,
My friend, No running rigging as yet? Are you getting old? Come no don't slip now. come on :happy: your letting the side down.
Be safe
Rory
The base is Rod Langton's (resin) and I've drilled two holes in it for mounting magnets. In addition to the thin plastic base I put on the hull I also attached a thin magnetic sheet to the very bottom on the ship, which is what holds it to the Ares bases or the Langton bases (modified with magnets).
I combined rigging using thread for the angles up through the yards to the masts and four bristles for the vertical lines down to the hull. I've never rigged a brig before so I don't even know if I got it right or not?
Yes, I very much like how it turned out and it definitely brings some variety to the table. Not sure if/when I'll use it for gaming? Not likely face to face, but if I get some stats, logs and an appropriate ship log I can sure try it out in a solo game or two.
I agree the HMS Detroit/Royal George are probably going to be purchased in the near future.
LOL. I am getting old Rory. I might add some running rigging, but it will have to be simple. Maybe some lines for the mizzen? I did add ratlines, matched as best I could. That should count for something? :wink:
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Jim, would you mind if I reposted some of your Niagara pics, with credit, to the model's page on Shapeways?
Any posted comments on the page would be welcome, too if you ever want to say something there.
Thanks again for buying it and sharing the beautiful work.
Sure, that would be fine. I may yet add some running rigging and a pennant or two, but feel free to use the photos. By the way I really like how Ken has his Niagara set to heel to leeward, but I opted for the level display as the plastic I have isn't thick enough to shape like basewood. I may yet try that on some of the SoG ships? It really adds a sense of movement to the ships. Cheers!
Kenneth and Jim, you work is really incredible. :hatsoff:
Very admirable.
OK, so Rory persuaded me to go ahead and attempt some running rigging on the US Brig Niagara. All was going well when the ship got flipped to the floor from about four feet high. I expected a total disaster, but was pleasantly surprised the damage wasn't more extensive. The standing rigging was loosened because some of the plastic lost its tension, but none of the ratlines popped off, which was a complete surprise. I still cant get the jib sail lines as taut as they were before so I'll just have to live with it. Even so I did most of the running rigging, but not all. On a ship this small it starts to get really busy, which I think detracts from the overall impression. Some of those lines were also loosened in the fall. Anyhow, here are a few photos of the finished ship. I'll put more up in my album.
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:happy: :thumbsup: :salute:
Be safe
Rory
Glad to hear the Niagara survived its first "storm!"
I like the Shapeways "Strong & Flexible White Plastic" for minis -- relatively sturdy, not brittle.
When creating the Niagara ship log I did a comparison between the Thorn and the Niagara.
Thorn stats: Burthen 300 3/4 bm Length 96 1/2 Ft Beam 26ft 9in Depth 12ft 9 in Crew 125 Armament 16 6 pounders 12 1/2 pound swivel guns. Burden 1 Movement G Veer 8
Niagara stats: Burthen 492 bm Length 110ft 8 in Beam 32 ft draft 9 ft Crew 155 Armament 18 32 pounders 2 12 pounders Burden 2 Movement F Veer 7
Niagara has almost twice the burthen than the Thorn does. It has much heavier cannons, too. It has 30 more crew, is wider and longer than the thorn. So, here is what I think the ship log should look like.
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It still needs tweaking. I obviously don't know how the maneuver decks works. I wanted the Niagara to be one deck slower than the Thorn, since it's bigger and heavier. But the F deck is for slow pig first raters. Maybe C or D deck? Also, the crew number is two high, I should change it to 4,4,4,3,2,1 so that it has 30 more crew than the Thorn, but less than a frigate. Let me know what you think.
Thanks, Ken!! This looks great! :thumbsup:
As for the Niagara ship base card will you use the Thorn's for the broadside angles and sailing directions or come up with something slightly different? Right now I'm using the Thorn's as a place holder, but that will have to change based on the log you've created.
I used the HMS Swan card because it seems to have a little wider broadside and can sail a hair closer to windward.
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Here's the ship card:
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And now for some action photos:
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Beautiful! I'll have to print out the cards and try to set up a solo game to see how Niagara vs. Niagara might play out. Did you decide on C or D deck for maneuvers?
I haven't decided. I was kind of hoping someone on the forum could help. Then I will make new cards and ships logs and finalize it. The closest ship to the Niagara in SOG is the Embuscade 1798. It has a burden of 2, uses a C deck, and has a veer of 8. The Niagara should be at least that fast, so I'm thinking C deck. The reason I put so many crew chits on the Niagara is because it has 150 crew and only two masts, whereas the Embuscade has three masts and 187 crew. It may not make a difference, but I need some salty old expert to tell me what the SOG numbers should actually be. I don't have enough confidence in myself to set the numbers. My reasoning behind the ship damage counters is that the Thorn has a burden of 1 and 6 damage counter spaces. I gave the Niagara a burden of 2 but only 4 damage counter spaces. It takes 6 damage counters to sink the Thorn. It takes 8 to sink the Niagara, which is 492 tons burthen, while Thorn is only 300 burthen. So that seems logical. Embuscade takes 16 damage counters to sink and is around 680 tons burthen. So maybe Niagara should have one or two more damage counter spaces. I don't know. A veer of 8 seems awfully yar for a beamy frigate but SOG has 4 frigates that are apparently as quick to the helm as a sloop-ship. I would really appreciate some input from everyone so I can sleep at night.
I understand completely what you'er saying. I'm a modeler more than a gamer so I wouldn't have a clue what to suggest. You've clearly got more knowledge on the subject along with some real sailing background. I just paint them and push the plastic around on the mats.
Hopefully our resident consultants (Diamondback and David Manley) and others will have something to suggest soon? Don't lose any sleep over this. It's just a game after all. :wink:
The only thing I could add is that everything I've read about the Niagara said it couldn't sail anywhere near as close to the wind as an oceangoing corvette or frigate could, due to its shallow draft and lack of a knifelike shape to the hull.
FWIW I think a burthen of 2 is too high for a brig, its more appropriate to a light frigate rather than a relatively lightly built ship. And you've given her to many crew actions at 6 - should be 4 max. 3 might be too heavy a gunnery factor, but thats a problem with the statting range in SGN; difficult to get the appropriate definition at the smaller end of the range. Yes they are carronades, but as it stands she has the same firepower as a frigate at long range which isn't right. Maybe restrict firing to short range only, or reduce long range gunnery by 1?
Just some quick thoughts off the top of my head - by brain is currently filled with Star Trek stats as we are trying out a new set of rules with my FASA star fleets at the moment and there's a lot of stat conversion to do :happy:
Another reason to cut down the crew actions is that the crew of the Niagara (and all the Lake Erie ships) were predominantly landsmen with the bare minimum of training.
Did they not get the benefit of the seamen taken from the frigates that were decommissioned? Many of the crews (and armament) were shipped to the Great Lakes when the seagojg ships were paid off.
Regardless, I'd probably reflect lower levels of crew training through the existing rules for inexperienced crews rather than reducing crew actions, although it is an interesting idea which might well be worth pursuing.
Good point. From what I read, the crews were still mostly lightly trained landsmen. Adm. Chauncey, on Lake Ontario, controlled the flow of personnel to Lake Erie and he kept the best available men for himself. The Niagara and Lawrence, as the best US ships on Lake Erie, had a sprinkling of veteran sailors who'd served in the saltwater fleet. Most of the experienced men, though, were officers and not enlisted crew. Also, there was a lot of lake fever sweeping the fleets and the ships barely had enough men to operate the ships properly in combat.
Ta for that, all useful info for when i get my Great Lakes campaign sorted out