Bit of info required here.....how common were Boarding actions between the larger warships such as 1st/2nd and 3rd raters?
Ken
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Bit of info required here.....how common were Boarding actions between the larger warships such as 1st/2nd and 3rd raters?
Ken
In a fleet action four or five were the norm.
For small Squadron actions a couple or so.
Rob.
Actually pretty rare between ships of the line, due to a number if factor including size disparity, tumbkehome and the sheer gap between decks. More common in frigate actions where these were much less of an issue. But the predominant mode of loss was striking colours and surrendering following significant damage and/Or casualties
Thank you David and Rob, I asked because I have often read (in fiction) of boarding actions between Frigates but I struggle to remember any account of anything between bigger war ships. What David says makes sense to me re the sheer size of ships of the line and the depth of deck space that would need to be cleared. If there are any historical instances of larger ship boarding actions (prior to striking colours) I'd be interested to know.
Ken
We do of course have the instance of :-
'Nelson's Patent Bridge for Boarding First Rates' - The Battle of Cape St Vincent
The Captain had sustained several casualties, including Nelson himself. He was hit in the abdomen by a large splinter of wood flung into the air by a cannon shot, which hit him with such force that he would have been knocked off his feet had not Captain Miller caught him and stopped him from falling. As the Excellent moved away towards Santisima Trinidad,exposing the San Nicolas once more to the Captain, Nelson spotted an opportunity. With her wheel and rigging shot away, the Captain would be virtually impossible to move away, and the crew of the San Nicolas were temporarily occupied with trying to disengage her rigging from that of the San José. Nelson ordered Captain Miller to take his ship closer, and rammed the San Nicolas.
Nelson called for a boarding party. Miller offered to lead it, but Nelson insisted on leading it himself, which was extremely unusual for a commanding officer - but not unusual for him! As ever, he led by example, knowing that it was a dangerous action and instinctively realizing that, by putting himself at the forefront of the attack, his presence would boost the morale and courage of his men.
Clambering up onto the Captain's cathead (a sturdy beam at the bow of the ship which was used to support the anchor), a marine smashed one of San Nicolas' stern windows with the butt of his musket, and Nelson climbed through with the party close behind. It turned out that he was climbing straight into the Spanish captain's cabin.
Attachment 42248
The cabin doors were locked and the Spanish fired at them through the windows with pistols. Nelson's party broke through the doors with axes and stormed onto the quarterdeck, which must have been a shock to the Spanish commanders! The Spanish commodore, Don Tomas Geraldino, was killed in the process.
Captain Edward Berry, who had not been given a ship and so had been on board the Captain as a volunteer, led another party along the Captain's bowsprit (a long pole extending forward from the prow of the ship) and jumped down onto the poop deck.
It didn't take long for the officers of the San Nicolas to surrender the ship into Nelson's hands.
But Nelson hadn't finished yet. The San Nicolas was still entangled with the San José, a larger, 3-decked ship that loomed above her and was being fired upon by the British Prince George and had already been battered by the Captain and Excellent. Not only that, but Rear-Admiral Winthuysen had had both his legs blown off, and had been carried below deck where he was dying of his wounds. Another 150 of her crew were killed or wounded. Still, some of the remaining crew began firing their muskets out of the admiral's cabin at the stern, down onto Nelson's small boarding party. If Nelson lost the element of surprise, and allowed them to muster a counter-attack, they could easily overwhelm him and his men.
Ever the opportunist, Nelson leapt (literally) at the chance to take another prize, in an action that was as daring and courageous as it was unique and unprecedented.
He ordered some of his marines to fire their muskets into the San José's stern, hailed Miller, still aboard the Captain, and ordered him to send reinforcements onto the San Nicolas to keep her under control, and he placed sentries to keep the officers locked down. Then, Berry boosting him onto the main chains, he leapt over the side of the San José and onto the deck. Almost as soon as he landed, the Spanish captain leaned over the quarterdeck rail and called out the surrender of the ship.
Nelson went up onto the quarterdeck where the captain presented him with his sword (the traditional symbolic gesture for a surrender) and informed him that the admiral was dying. Nelson double-checked that the ship really had surrendered by asking the captain to swear it on his honour, then sent him to gather up the officers of the ship. In a little ceremony which Nelson described as 'extravagant', the Spanish all handed him their swords, one by one, which he handed to one of his bargemen, William Fearney, who tucked them under his arm. With him were Edward Berry, Lieutenant Pierson of the 69th regiment (who were serving as marines), and three men - whom Nelson fondly called "old Agamemnons" as they had served with him on that ship - John Sykes, John Thomson and Francis Cook.
This incredible action, of boarding one first-rate and then using her as a springboard from which to board another, became known as 'Nelson's Patent Bridge for Boarding First Rates'.
And this is why we love Lord Nelson! :salute:
There are a few, but not many. They occur quite frequently in naval fiction because they are such a dramatic event,
They look good, but I must admit to always being dubious of these on the larger ships, including the 64s unless someone knows differently.
Frigates et al I can understand
I thought that Naval Fiction was what Sails was all about? The Historical background is great for ideas but I'm not suggesting anyone becomes a button counter unless that is what they really want out of the game.
Rob.
Hear, hear! Buckling swash foremost, followed by historical accuracy. Even Robin Hood has to be jammed into the cracks of history, but where would history be without him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bligh
:salute: Thanks for the support Dobbs. I was starting to think that I had not only rigged my own plank here but was already at the end of it waiting for the sword point to push me off:swordleft:. In the true spirit of the game you understand.:wink:
Rob.:beer:
Just in case I have mislead anyone here, my original question was on the historical side of things and not the gaming. :takecover:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bligh
Ken
Gamewise I think boarding actions are well within remit and very much fun. I dont intend to change the way we play the game.
Just think that boarding actions on large ships were not a norm was all I meant.
I look forward to the next show to buckle my swash against some 74s
Historically, I think most captains agreed that boarding left too much to chance unless you had a distinct numerical or morale advantage. Of course if gunnery was your weak point, the coin-toss of a boarding action might be appealing.
Dobbs that was exactly the case in one of Constitution's actions. The British captain knowing he was outgunned tried to board after the ships became entangled. Of the top of my head I can't recall if it was Java or Guerriere
Chesapeake vs. Shannon is a good example of a frigate boarding action although one could say that the initial musketry just preceding it helped with the outcome. That one didn't end well for either captain. A boarding action famous in history that gave us great fiction would have to be Speedy v El Gamo!
Speedy vs. El Gamo is definitely a case for boarding. There's the difference in weight of broadside between a sloop and a frigate, not to mention the morale boost of following Cochrane. Granted, there was definitely NOT a numerical advantage for Cochrane...
Sorry, I thought the question was about how many times they happened in reality, not in game terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bligh
FWIW I can think of only a half dozen games of "Sails", if that, in which I have played where boarding actions have taken place. Ship loss via gunnery and musketry damage has by far been the final arbiter.
Anyway, when did it get ok to slag off people on this forum? Calling someone a "button counter"? Not exactly friendly is it?