Shapeways SOG Ships

[Broadsword56]

Thanks Ken!
I've been trying to dig up some info about Niagara/Lawrence sailing characteristics too.
Her absolute top speed in a good wind would be 11 knots. More typically she cruises at an average 6 knots.
Due to her very shallow draft, and lacking the knife-shaped hull bottom of oceangoing ships, she can't sail anywhere as near to the wind as they did.
And brigs are highly vulnerable to even one good mast hit, since they have only 2 masts and that rear mast also has the spanker -- so they can lose speed and control fast due to rigging damage.
On gunnery, you'd of course have to factor in the fact that she was all carronades except for the 2 small long guns.
If anyone has any good references for sailing speeds of War of 1812 ships on the Lakes, please let me know.
I'm making a solo campaign game using the PC aid Cyberboard, which will offer a way to play the strategic and grand-tactical ops so one can stage the actual tabletop battles that result using any miniatures system you want. The enemy AI will derive from the old Victory Games' Tokyo Express, but adapted for age of sail and probably incorporating aspects of the SGN solo maneuver chart too. (This is a long-range project so there's no ETA on it.)

[csadn]

And brigs are highly vulnerable to even one good mast hit, since they have only 2 masts and that rear mast also has the spanker -- so they can lose speed and control fast due to rigging damage.

[nod] I keep reading about how British "brig-sloops" were "inferior" (their words) to US "ship-sloops" due to being more vulnerable to rigging damage; aside from "two masts vs. three", I can't really figure out how it would be a problem. Something was said about brig-sloops being particularly vulnerable to upper-sail damage, but no details were provided.

[Coog]

[nod] I keep reading about how British "brig-sloops" were "inferior" (their words) to US "ship-sloops" due to being more vulnerable to rigging damage; aside from "two masts vs. three", I can't really figure out how it would be a problem. Something was said about brig-sloops being particularly vulnerable to upper-sail damage, but no details were provided.

Maybe it was just that their crews were inferior.

[csadn]

Maybe it was just that their crews were inferior.

Well, there's that.... >;)

But, as the Gardiner quote (which I was aware of, but thanks anyway) states: A British brig-sloop looses one sail, and is effectively immobilized; a US sloop loses three, and can still maneuver. Something to do with sail area, perhaps? Or how the rigging was run?

[DeRuyter]

Well, there's that.... >;)

But, as the Gardiner quote (which I was aware of, but thanks anyway) states: A British brig-sloop looses one sail, and is effectively immobilized; a US sloop loses three, and can still maneuver. Something to do with sail area, perhaps? Or how the rigging was run?

More about how the rig is set up on a brig vs. ship, but sail area factors in as well. In the example the brig lost her gaff - effectively taking out her driver/spanker a sail that can be used for maneuvering and also having a large % of the sail area on the main mast of a brig.

[Broadsword56]

You're ahead of me, Ken -- I had my Niagara almost assembled and painted but had to pause and wait for Shapeways to ship me a new foremast (they lost the one I ordered during processing).

FYI, the hulls on the latest model -- Royal George class sloop corvettes -- have a higher waterline that should allow for the authentic painted stripe. And if you like the Niagara masts, you should really love my new and improved masts on the Royal George, which have the sails and mast joined as a single part.

Re: Holes on the deck for masts -- I actually do design them in the model, but it turns out that the holes are too small a detail to print. If I look closely I can sometimes see a little circle where the hole would be, and that can serve as a guide on placement. I didn't drill any holes for my masts -- just super glued them on, and they sit solid as can be. And yes, a sternwards rake of about 5 degrees looks right -- that's what I did, too.

[Broadsword56]

[nod] I keep reading about how British "brig-sloops" were "inferior" (their words) to US "ship-sloops" due to being more vulnerable to rigging damage; aside from "two masts vs. three", I can't really figure out how it would be a problem. Something was said about brig-sloops being particularly vulnerable to upper-sail damage, but no details were provided.

I couldn't find much in detail on this, but my copy of Gardiner's The Naval War of 1812 says this about it:
"...The distinct advantage of three masts over two can be seen in in most of the actions: USS Wasp could still maneuver after the loss of her main topmast, mizzen topgallant, and and gaff, whereas the already storm-damaged Frolic was completely disabled when her gaff was shot away; similarly, USS Peacock survived the loss of her foremast sails in the fight with the Espeigle, damage which would have crippled a brig."