US Ships.......

[7eat51]

I got my start with Richthofen's War, WS&IM, and Tobruk - all during the mid '70s. To this day, WWI (and now WWII) aviation, AoS, and WWII tactical are my favorite genres.

One of the childhood things I miss the most was my army man collection. I had different countries, different wars, different scales. How I wish I had them today.

We used to collect baseball, football, hockey, etc., cards with that pink gum. I bet if we found a pack, the gum would still taste the same.

[Nightmoss]

Speaking of banned cards. For us it was the "Mars Attacks" set, which was censored and then eventually pulled from production in the 1960s. I vaguely recall having some of them and they were pretty graphic. They seem to have disappeared from the stuff my Mom did keep to pass on to us kids? I wonder why? If I told her how much some of the original cards are selling for now she'd probably be shocked and dismayed.

http://www.cardboardconnection.com/1...-trading-cards

[7eat51]

I gave my entire card collection, collected a pack at a time, to a young kid who didn't have much - various sports, Planet of the Apes, Batman, etc. all from the mid-70s and earlier. He subsequently sold it for drug money.

Jim, if we kept them, no one would probably want them today.

[csadn]

I think I understand what you're getting at, but I am not sure. Would you mind expounding a bit?

OK:

-- Motorized Infantry: The "miracle on the Marne" in '14 was prefigured repeatedly by the use of trains in ACW, most particularly at 1st Bull Run; the Rebels would have lost had not reinforcements arrived by train the morning of the battle. Trucks merely allowed the troops to be dropped off that much closer to the front. If one includes the Union's riverine forces along the Mississippi, the importance of motor transport becomes even more apparent.

-- Importance of sea control: The Rebels were never able to reopen their major ports (Galveston was reopened; but it was so far away, it didn't signify), and slowly ran out of supplies.

-- Trench Warfare: Petersburg -- no more need be said.

-- Effect of rapid-fire weapons on massed infantry: Look up "Battle of Hoover's Gap, 1863", and "Wilder's Lightning Brigade". One could argue Wilder's bunch presaged the "storm troopers" of 1918, but even I think that's stretching a bit (Wilder did understand mobility and firepower, tho'; and his artillery commander wasn't exactly a moron either -- some guy named Eli Llilly.... >:) ) To a lesser extent, see also the effect of repeaters during Thomas's rearguard action at Chickamauga.

-- Effect of more-accurate weapons on massed infantry: Pretty-much-every battle -- most charges only succeeded when the defense ran out of ammo; otherwise, they got shot to pieces.

-- Artillery's importance: Stones River, third day; Gettysburg, third day ("Pickett's Charge"). And the guns were only getting bigger.... (That's what Tanks were supposed to be -- mobile cannon platforms.)

(Couple those last three, and one sees why catastrophes like Fredricksburg, Antietam at Burnside's Bridge, Gettysburg Day 3, the massacre of the 54th MA Vol. Inf. at Battery Wagner, and such took place.)

There was even a vestigial form of aerial reconnaissance (to include an "aircraft carrier"), using Thaddeus Lowe's balloons; but it wasn't quite developed enough to be useful much past the tactical level (balloons can't do "deep recon").

The main reason the Euros didn't notice is partly their fault, and partly the fault of the US historians and journalists -- basically: The ACW as-taught these days is just rehashing U.S. Grant's 1868 election campaign; so anything which showed Grant's complete incompetence was buried... which meant not a word about anything which happened east of Richmond (not his bungling of the first day at Shiloh; not his six months of stomping around the swamps outside Vicksburg; not the fact that the Battle of Chattanooga played out exactly the opposite of how he planned it; and marginalizing of his epic bungling through the Wilderness to Cold Harbor). If one studies where the war was *actually* fought, and won consistently by the Union (I recommend this for initial reading: http://www.amazon.com/Decision-Heart.../dp/0803236263 ), one can see the horror-show any future war was going to become.

[Kentop]

"The euros didn't notice" is too vague and general to be taken seriously. Everybody noticed. What you really mean is that they didn't respond to what they were seeing in the way you think they should have. Hindsight is wonderful.

[NimitsTexan]

The Europeans, and most specifically the French, definitely intentionally ignored the whatever lessons could have been learned from the Civil War. Still enamored of Napoleon (at least as interpreted by Jomini), they wrote off the ACW tactical experience to lack of proper military education on the part of American generals and soldiers.

[Popsical]

The excellently trained and professional British army (very small) had learnt lots of lessons in the Boer war and other colonial conflicts.
The Bef fought brilliantly in the first stages of WW1, out fighting the enemy almost everytime.
However, these new tactics and better training were eventually crushed by weight of fire and numbers.
Not all us euro types learnt bugger all.
Sadly once trench warfare started the old generals couldnt change or try to develope new tactics.
A very sad conflict indeed.

[Capn Duff]

Similar to Rory, interest in ACW first started with the Civil War cards, very bloody and graphic, then Don Featherstones book came along and I first read the battle of Platteville valley, I think that was the name. Big bonus for a schoolboy in the late 60 Airfix ho soldiers, union infantry, confederate infantry, Wagon train, US7 cavalry and artillery set. So availability was the big selling point for ACW, at that time very little Napoleonic, a few WW2.
Once started it was easy to read up on other civil war battles, then I discovered S&T and the GBACW series.
By 1860 we had rifled muskets rifles cannon, machine guns, trench warfare so ACW was a modern war which for me was dealt with in detail at school, more so than the 7 ww and Franco Prussian war.
Never even heard or the war of 1812 until years later to be honest and that was due to reading A Near Run Thing about Waterloo where it mentions the Penninsular veterans being in America.
So when I first started war gaming the ACW was the first period and has been a favourite since then

[csadn]

And now that we can't get anything ACW-themed in stores because Christ-f***ing-forbid it *might* depict a Confederate Battle Flag....

[Diamondback]

Political Correctness is just Fascism with a smiley face. 'Nuff Said.

[David Manley]

Really? Most PC Brigade people I've encountered are miserable hatchet faced types

[Diamondback]

Which is kind of the irony of it all... they claim to be about "love" and "tolerance" and all that hippy-dippy stuff, but then reveal themselves to be among the most hate-filled, angry, intolerant folks around, routinely practicing the Politics of Personal Destruction against not just those who disagree but everyone around them as well. "That guy dissed us? Let's screw him and his entire ZIP code over royal..."

[fredmiracle]

Political Correctness is just Fascism with a smiley face. 'Nuff Said.

PC can be taken overboard of course, but--dude, I think you need to learn a little more about facism if you think they're equivalent ;)

[Berthier]

PC can be taken overboard of course, but--dude, I think you need to learn a little more about facism if you think they're equivalent ;)

[NimitsTexan]

PC can be taken overboard of course, but--dude, I think you need to learn a little more about facism if you think they're equivalent ;)

The fascists (speaking especially of the German National Socialists, with whose history I am more familiar) and the Soviet communists (with whom the term originated), were very big on ensuring that all public speech and expressions matched and furthered the established political and social orthodoxy favored by the government and the ruling elite, and silence all that did not. Though their methods of enforcement are less violent, that description could very easily apply to the those on the political and social left in North America and Western Europe attempting to compel political correctness today.

[7eat51]

Thank you, Chris, for your response and book suggestion. I was speaking to George a few minutes ago about visiting Gettysburg someday. He and his family visited there last year. I think it is time to watch Of Gods and Generals and then Gettysburg, again.

Let's turn back to military history discussions and leave strongly felt political discussions to PMs.