Got a tracking number for my Capt level pledge but N/A on the mats. I ordered 1 extra mat. I'm in Seattle, Wa. Delivery from UPS is scheduled for Tues Dec. 24. Looks like deliveries are gonna make the west coast after all .
Got a tracking number for my Capt level pledge but N/A on the mats. I ordered 1 extra mat. I'm in Seattle, Wa. Delivery from UPS is scheduled for Tues Dec. 24. Looks like deliveries are gonna make the west coast after all .
Originally Posted by csadn
It would only be acceptable if it included...
A shrubbery!
Must show you my "Holy Grail" army for DBA/Hordes, complete with giant wooden rabbit
Bedevere: What makes you think she is a witch?Must show you my "Holy Grail" army for DBA/Hordes, complete with giant wooden rabbit
Peasant: Oh, she turned me into a newt!
[Bedevere gives him a disbelieving look]
Bedevere: A newt?
[Silence]
Peasant: Well, I got better.
Peasant Crowd: Burn her anyway!
Not yet. I too got the dreaded "NA" blast. If they are going by survey receipt order I am in trouble as mine was sent back late due to a junk mail issue.
No worries though, I am working on a big X-Wing Death Star trench run game for 12/26th. It is our annual kids Christmas game.
Eric
A guy at Rock-Con had such a game set up. It was pretty cool. I think he used a sheet of clear plastic across the top of the trench so planes could either be in the trench or above it.
I hope you have a wonderful time; it sounds like a great tradition.
Just saw this review of the SoG KS on BGG: http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/25...-kickstarter-2
Yeah, just saw the same thing. Im inclined to agree with the guy. I'm highly unimpressed with their lying about internatinal shipping, using this new cheaper postage it could take another 5 weeks postage to those of us outside the US. This Keith guy has a lot of good points, Ares has been keeping us on edge about this for months by using misinformation.
He evidently does not watch very many KS projects. Delays, bungled communication, and shipping problems are the norm. And although SoG has been running behind schedule, it is no where near as bad as some others I've seen. I have no doubts or concerns with this KS project that I will eventually receive a quality product. I don't know what it is about Europe, particularly the UK which seems to get everything way behind everyone else. It seems I'm reading all the time about bad shipping problems with KS projects and anything else that has to be shipped there.
Last edited by Coog; 12-22-2013 at 16:22.
Keith compared SOG to a board game without models what a joke. We also would have had the SOG months ago if it didn't have models. The making of good looking models that are painted well is not easy if it was there wouldn't be companies in Sri Lanka and Chine that paint miniatures for pay.
No matter what the reason for the delays, or how pointed a customers complaints are, an answer like,
"We do not have a magic wand to send out something like 3 000 packages in one day yet. Apart from working on Saturday night to keep you informed, there is not much more we can do to prevent you from being "unimpressed"."
could have been worded much better. I can understand how frustrated some people at Ares must be but, their/his CUSTOMER SERVICE skills need to be worked on.
The Ares staff are not a bunch of kids just out of school and should have known that you should build in possible delays into your projected delivery date.
If no problems occur, you're a hero with an early delivery.
Maybe next time.
Come and talk to me about "The Duke" from Catalyst Game Labs and I'll tell you how not to run a KS project. I'm still waiting on delivery of components and a "Legacy" game that was scheduled for July 2012 delivery. Not only have they done poorly in delivery of add on's, their communication is particularly bad. Weeks go by without any word on what's happening, and they are larger than Ares. They say we're near an end, but that has been said before.
It's the nature of most KS projects to have delays and I'm used to it by now. By comparison I think Ares has done a very good job.
Of course, I'm not sitting in Europe knowing it's going to be weeks before I get anything in hand due to the shipping issues. I'll say no more on that because I'm still waiting to get my ships, and one never knows what issues could still come up for those who got the dreaded "N/A" email.
Or take Ogre got only a 13 months late.
I have bought games and A&A and D&D minis from one prominent online supplier. Whenever there was a problem with an order, and having ordered a lot of stuff over the past two years, there has been plenty of opportunity for problems, the company always responded quickly, apologetically, and corrected things without question or complaint. I do not hesitate ordering from them, for I know if a problem should arise, the company will respond appropriately. Things happen; we all get that. How a company responds when it does happen, is was matters.
I think Ares dropped the ball on a few things with this KS, and comparing this project to other poorly executed KS projects, does not change that. I think Ares should have refrained from setting dates when it could not guarantee those dates, especially the subsequent dates. I think Ares should have arranged a better solution to sending the game mats than how it has been done; I don't think slapping postage labels on the actual game box was wise or courteous. It might seem like a little thing, but it communicates something more. This does not mean I won't be a loyal customer. I will continue supporting Ares, and will demo WoG and SoG with great enthusiasm. If Ares runs another KS, I will be right there with my commitment, and will spread the word. Because I care about Ares, I will communicate with Ares my experience with this whole process once it is concluded, good and bad. I want the company to not only succeed, but thrive. Providing them honest feedback is an important step toward that goal.
I have an inkling that the BGG reviewer is probably more upset with his experience of Ares' response and communications, than with the actual delay, not that that is not disappointing.
Unless a company has done a large KS before there is no true way for them to know exactly how things go. Buying from an online supplier is nothing like participating in a KS. A new KS and not just a KS that expand an existing system is operating in the unknown. Ares was creating a whole new system If you look at the original prototypes if they had settle for them we could have had the game months ago but of course then people would have been complaining about the quality of the ships. From now on all they have to do is make a couple changes and produce different ships. How would you feel if after getting your ships the next ships from Ares were a lot better? Quite a few people are participating in the KS because they don't or can't paint good miniatures myself including. I spent a lot of money and I'd rather get good quality painted ships then only fair painted ships faster. I plan on running an SOG monthly game in my club and I really don't want to hear people bad mouthing how well the ships were painted. I like to hear compliments! Quality is usually worth the wait.
All I'm sure of, is when the ships are in my hands, I'll be ever grateful to Ares.
We all like to hear compliments, but for companies to improve, they must also hear complaints, and complaints do not mean that a customer is not happy with the company overall. I am thrilled with Ares, and I will back them without hesitation. That does not mean that there is no room for improvement. One of the reasons I highlighted about subsequent dates is that initial dates are always suspect. That comes with the territory. It is better for a company to refrain from issuing subsequent dates until they are confident those dates can be met. If several dates are missed, trust in future announcements will be lower.
I do not mind a longer wait time for a better quality product. I don't think anyone really does. That is not an issue I raised, nor is it an issue to me. For me, the issues revolve around communication and delivery. Those can be improved. Nothing about Ares makes me think that receiving such input from a fan would be unwelcome, and if it is not clear, I am a fan of Ares.
I still have my original Avalon Hill copy of Up Front and break it out to play every few years with an old friend. I'm kind of curious, what came down with the Kickstarter on it? I had contemplated backing it and....I simply forgot. Anybody got links detailing the train of events and current status?
I guess I came at this with a different perspective.
I put my money on the table to get a game system started.
Never having participated in a Kickstarter project (nor having heard what it was), I had no preconceptions. I just knew I was part of getting another excellent game developed.
Time line was not a major concern, I thought the projected one was a little ambitious, and in fact we have a finished product in less than a year. Having seen the prototypes and run some games already, I was very pleased with what I saw. Higher quality is a bonus!
I also feel that Ares current plan shows a willingness to think outside the box and to seize opportunity when it presents to make the next stage out sooner, even if it is at the expense of the 'Specials', which are only delayed, but will be enhanced. Knowing Ares dedication to detail, I am looking forward to the standard they set for these editions and future ones. If they need more time, I support them.
I do regret to hear that the EU and the Southern Hemisphere will have longer shipping times, and I hope they get theirs soon. I may or may not see mine by Christmas, but knowing it is almost here it great news.
If asked would I do it again, absolutely!
Here are the comments on the KS page: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...-game/comments
This link has updates (from BGG): http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/586/up-front
I have never played this game. What's your thoughts on it?
Are EU orders shipped from the US warehouse?
My only perspective is from the original Avalon Hill version. It is a brilliant game. Despite being a card game, relative positioning and range is very important. You have the cards in your hand and you have have three force stacks in front of you. Each force stack can increase or close range with the enemy stack in front of it, or you can shift elements sideways to another stack. There are no dice. All cards have numbers in multiple colors at the bottom and this functions as a random number generator by drawing cards from the deck. It's pretty easy to learn how to play, but you can start pulling some skeevy stuff when you start figuring out how to work the system and catch some of the subtleties of how it smartly covers things. It has a bunch of pre-generated scenarios that are well balanced.
One thing to keep in mind is that the scale of the game is different from Squad Leader. You have individual soldier cards. They are kept track of for morale and wound purposes separately, but you generally shoot them as a group. It works kind of like a card activation system. You can't fire unless you have a firing card in your hand to play. Firing cards come in various numbers of firepower factors. You require enough firepower to use a card of a certain value. You can combine firepower cards. You can't move unless you have a move card in your hand. You move to change range or shift sideways. There are terrain cards you move into, if you have them in your hand. You can play barbed wire and minefield cards. There are tanks. Leadership is reflected in the morale level of the soldier cards, the leader soldier cards you have and nationality changes how many cards you can have in your hand and how you can discard to try and get better cards.
It's easy to play and doesn't take long for a complete game, but a crap load of different stuff goes on in that time.
After they finally get their crap together on the new version I'll probably check it out. If it's as good as the original and hopefully plays as quickly, I could run a micro tournament inside a single convention time slot.
Eric, I do agree with you on how Ares handled release dates and their subsequent timing of updates. I think they told people what they wanted to hear, rather than saying nothing at all, or even admitting that the game wouldn't come out for months longer than planned. Some of the blame rests with them, but I also think their overseas suppliers/warehouse might have been communicating erroneous information, which put them in a bad spot.
I expect they've learned a lot from this and things will be very different if/when they do another KS.
Yes, Ed. I think everything is coming out of the Ft. Wayne, IN warehouse.
If that's the case, since it takes so long for orders to get to Europe, shouldn't the EU orders have been shipped first? That way the majority of the US and EU kickstarters would get their orders about the same time.
That certainly would have been one way to do it. I do think some EU Captain's orders have gone out of the warehouse, so what will be interesting to see is just how long it does take them to get to their respective backers?
It appears to me that Ares had more faith in elements in the manufacturing and shipping chain than appears to have been warranted. Broadly speaking they've been up front that this is a learning process for them, but maybe they should have caveatted their various status updates more strongly. Beyond that, is there any way they could have had more visibility or control over this supply chain? I have no idea if that would be a reasonable expectation, I've never had any hand in such a project.
I can imagine a fair bit of anger might stem from the fact that people had counted on this for a Christmas present. I was expecting serious delays, but last April--given that Ares is an existing company with a good track record--I would have said that Christmas was a fairly safe assumption. Personally I got this as a game to fill vacation time with the kids, and while I was "a bit sad but not surprised" that we didn't get to play it last summer, it now appears we won't get to use it over this Christmas break either. I'm not angry-bitter or anything, but it is unfortunate...
Just got my shipping notice today (23rd) for both packages. Interestingly one is travelling 1st class, the other priority, any idea what this means for shipping times to the UK?
As for the production delays, for a new game someone once told me to take the delivery date then add 6 months. On those grounds Ares isn't doing too badly.
Edit to add: Captains pledge, no extras
Depends on what date you were working to wrt "delays". remember i was working with Ares on a launch event at the Naval Wargames Show in June 2012, and at that point the game was "just about there" :)
My take on this - it comes when it comes. OK, I was as infuriated as many with the shifting goalposts but TBH I have more than enough lead and plastic to push around the table so its not like I've been climbing the walls with nothing to do. My only real hope is that Ares have done their homework wrt postage, VAT declarations etc. and not caused unnecessary expense for overseas backers.
I dipped into a Kickstarter to see how the process worked from a backer's perspective because it was something I was particularly interested in. I've scratched that itch, won't do so again. But I can see why people get all excited over KS. No worries.
The biz over the Wave 2 / Bonus ships issue - poor handling by Ares, IMHO, but hopefully they've learnt from this and the rest of the KS process. I have.
Let me start this thread by saying I can not access BBG at work, so I've not read that linked thread.
On dates: The issue here is that under a KS, the backers expect and have a right to updates on expected delivery dates. They are in fact pre-paying for a product (in the case of games) and a lack of date info coming from any company would not be excepted. This will always lead to missing the deadlines one sets.
On the mats: I've not talked to the guys at Ares (they are supposed to be on vacation), but I'm not laying this issue at their feet just yet. It's quite possible that Alliance did this without checking with Ares, thinking it would be quite acceptable. I do agree that it is not though. In fact, I'm wondering how my retailer pledge mats will arrive. If they get shipped out like this and are damaged, it will make it really hard for me to resell them in that condition.
And Chinese companies are notorious for giving you dates and not meeting them. I'm quite sure that Ares dealt with a lot of that (just look at the delays we see on the Wings side of things) for this KS. It's not all Ares fault, but the buck does stop there.
My AA orders to the UK get there in about 6-9 days with First Class. Priority is not much faster at 4-7 days. There are so many variables when it comes to shipping, it's hard to predict anything.
Sounds much more like a distribution centre issue than an Ares one. I'm sure they are as surprised and concerned about it as we are.On the mats: I've not talked to the guys at Ares (they are supposed to be on vacation), but I'm not laying this issue at their feet just yet.
That's what I think. I know that the Wings mats come 5 to a case, so I assume the warehouse just broke those cases open and shipped them as is.
Thanks, Andy. It seems this could fill a whole in my collection. A quick WWII tactical game that is easy to learn and to take on the road. On BGG, it looks like there will be a lot of expansions. I'm glad you asked about this; it was not on my radar.
Last edited by 7eat51; 12-23-2013 at 11:34.
The guy on BBG, Keith Medlin, had some valid points I suppose. then he said this on his last post:-
So with this he has annoyed me....Go back to the safe confines of fanboys in the SoG forums or at the Anchorage if you cannot handle honest critique
I received my despatch notice for two packages, could be one ship and one mat?
Dated 23 Dec we will see how long it takes to get to UK
Man, now I really want to go read his review. lol I am a little curious, is he review the game and it's parts on BGG or his KS experience?
Chris, It all depends on which company is used in the UK to deliver them. Royal Mail are the only regulated delivery company in the UK, so are the only company with a defined delivery window from when they get parcels.
Keith, I could "copy and paste" it, but it's a fair bit....
Agreed. Irregardless of his points this thread comes across as someone with a particularly large axe to grind. And his latest comment concerning 'fanboys' makes him look like a total *******.
Maybe, maybe not. Some posts by a few posters on the Aerodrome do give the impression that their authors would be happy just to give Ares the login details of their bank account with permission to raid as and when they wish on the offchance of getting something occasionally, or that they'd be happy to buy just about anything. Not a common attitude, true, but its there. I recall someone even posted something along the lines of "I don't care what ares produce, I'll buy it". And I find that quite irritating; I'd like the customer base to be discerning, critical and holding those to whom they would like to spend their hard earned cash to account. If you give the impression you'll be happy with any old thing then that is exactly what you will get.
Whilst I'm not happy about the delays I kind off expected them, new product, knowing how WoW products are always delayed, I'm just happy that I'll get new toys in the next week or two. I did get the hump about being called a "fanboy" though, that's why I went and made a cup of tea instead of replying
Its only a real insult if they spell it "fanboi"
Very wise, everything is always that little bit better after a good cup of tea and things never seem quite so bad anymore.Whilst I'm not happy about the delays I kind off expected them, new product, knowing how WoW products are always delayed, I'm just happy that I'll get new toys in the next week or two. I did get the hump about being called a "fanboy" though, that's why I went and made a cup of tea instead of replying
Given the theme, maybe we should be called "fanbuoys",Its only a real insult if they spell it "fanboi"
@ 7eat51 , brilliant mate, just pure dead brilliant!!
Unfortunately, I don't drink tea and I'm a loud-mouthed American so leaving a reply was something I was compelled to follow through on. We're merely talking about a game here not like something with real world consequences. Nobody is starving, homeless, or otherwise disadvantaged because Ares was delayed with a product that is still going to arrive, just a little late. Oh darn.
You don't drink Tea??? Barbarian....
I was just reading Keith Medlin's blog post on BGG and it irks me. Some of his statements omit details or stem from his own complete misinterpretation of the updates. One such example is that the Kickstarter said 95% of PRE-PRODUCTION was done before Kickstarter, not that all printing was almost done. I, for one, would like to see HIS email to Ares of which he shared their "snippy" reply. That's a classic case of sharing one side of the story. If he was rude, perhaps there was provocation for any snippiness.
Another fact that has kept me from getting worked up about delays is knowing the FOUR people that make up the main team on this project are Italian. I have a decent amount of interaction with people from other countries, and most of them do things differently, as part of their culture, than we do here in the U.S. Perhaps being positive, upbeat, and focused on "best case" scenarios is one of those particular differences. I never once misinterpreted their hopes as "this is a promise that will not falter."
Imagine what a lovely, peaceful place the world would be if everyone drank tea :)
@ David, Indeed sir, indeed...
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